Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back, listeners, to the bright lights of Broadway. This is the cosmic curtain, the official podcast of the cosmic circus, Broadway. I'm Brian Kitson, head writer at the Cosmic Circus and Cosmic Circus Broadway. And joining me, as always, is my co host and fellow boxy Babe, RJ Miller Zelenko. How are you doing today, sir?
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Doing all right. How about you?
[00:00:22] Speaker A: Can't complain. Can't complain. Are you ready to talk about some of these shows from our state here in Michigan that we've seen recently?
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Let's do it.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: All right. So starting off strong, we're going to talk about Beauty and the beast, which, as you know, and as everybody following along knows, is one of my absolute favorite stories ever.
Do you?
I guess. Let me ask you first, what is your relationship with Beauty and the Beast? Obviously, you probably grew up on it like I did in some form, but what is this story for you?
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, of course, classic Disney story film.
Was obsessed with it as a child.
Very catchy music and characters.
Was always a big fan of Belle.
But, yeah, was super excited to see the show title and excited that we got to see it live, because I don't think that up until this point, I had seen it done locally.
[00:01:33] Speaker A: Sure. And in fact, I've never seen the show live. I know that it was on Broadway. I know there was tours. I know that it's gonna tour next year, which I'm really excited about, but I've never seen this live. For as much as I love this story, it's always. It never seems one that people want to adapt and be it because of how much of a production value you need to put together all of these different and animated characters and not to real life, but you don't really see it a lot.
[00:02:00] Speaker B: Yeah, it's for sure a big costume heavy and set heavy show. So you really do need, on top of it just being Disney. So you're gonna have to have the big bucks just to get the show in general and bid on it. But, yeah, of course, when you think about what you need just for Belle and the beast alone, regarding costuming and I. And makeup.
Yeah, it's a. You're gonna drop a dime on it.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Absolutely. Of course, Disney licensing is gonna be expensive, but you're right, the costuming, Belle and beast alone, you need to hit their iconic looks. And something that we're gonna talk about as we go on about this is that it is almost like a simplified version of the story. The story itself is still there, but like the costumes and the sets, they are appropriate for the level of storytelling we're seeing for.
For production of this value. Have you seen. Because this was put on by honor own productions. This is a local production house that's run out of Frasier. This one was specifically at the Fraser's performing art center. Have you seen a production by this. This, I guess, studio?
[00:03:12] Speaker B: You know, I actually had not. I had heard of them. I had some folks in my network that had done shows with them, and I had heard the name. I knew of the director and just had never made my way over to Frasier. It's a little bit of a ways for me, but was glad to stumble upon it.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Absolutely. It's always interesting to think about where we grow up, because Fraser is right down the street from me, and I still have never heard of this, this production house, you know? And so when you brought this up back a few months ago, not only was I in, but it was just interesting to see that it was so close to home. And I never, never once saw one of the productions you had mentioned. Of course, the director.
I'm gonna go.
His last name is Pokorni. Yeah.
Okay. But Jerry, he's not only the director of this production, he's also one of the bigger roles in this as Lefou. This is, like I said, I had a lot of fun with this one. And, you know, when you look at kind of the cast in the story, they were able to really put together this very storybook, you know, tale on stage, and they adapted it quite well. What about this production maybe stood out to you? You know, talk about, like, the performances of the songs or the set design. What was it? Just kind of.
I don't know what jumped out at you about this one.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, immediately the vocals, I was really impressed with.
And also, I remember immediately being thrown off by the fact that there were so many people in the production. I, for some reason, in my head, had it that it was a smaller production. And during that opening bell number, just people kept showing up, they kept coming, they kept filling the stage. And I was like, oh, like, there's. This is a big cast, which is awesome. And then the vocal quality, too, just was very good. It was very well done. So that was, like, my immediate knee jerk reaction.
All right, we're. We're showing up. We're showing out.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: I also was shocked by how big this cast is. And granted, I have not seen many local productions. I didn't grow up in it like you did. But in my head, I've always thought of local productions as very, you know, it's all there, but it's very small. It's very intimate, you know, and when I was writing this face sheet and stuff, the sheet just kept having names. In fact, all the names I did not include on there, because there was just so many names of people that were in the show, and some of them were just, you know, villagers and stuff. But that whole, you know, and the stage is a pretty standard stage. It felt kind of big, but it was full from one end to the other of people, especially in Belle, you know, that there's just.
It kept going.
[00:06:23] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And it really just speaks to, I mean, we have, as we know, plenty of community based style theaters in even just our local Michigan area.
But to see that many people involved, for a theater group that isn't, like, the most well known in the southeast Michigan area, it was encouraging to me because I'm like, you know, theatre is still very much alive. The arts are still very much alive, because when you think about a production, obviously you're thinking about not just the actors, but all the people that are involved.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: So what do you think it took to make that show come alive?
Like you have that behind the scenes kind of knowledge?
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Well, I know with. With productions like this one, especially when you're renting out a space. So in this case, I know that this organization rents out the space probably only a week or two prior to the show going up. So you have very limited time to put a set together. You have very limited time to really get a feel for the set, the stage, where the. Where costumes are, where dressing rooms are, any changes, any costume changes that need to occur during the production, all of those things you can't even rehearse until, you know, the week before the show.
So it's just. It's a different kind of hard, and it requires a village, and that, I think it shows in their numbers, because I'm sure that not only were folks in the production, but I'm sure many of them helped build the set. They helped with lighting, they helped with costumes. A very multifaceted role when you're in one of these shows.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: So you have to wear many hats to be able to bring this show to life.
[00:08:25] Speaker B: Yes.
From what I know of the production, you are a little bit more responsible than you usually would be in regards to costuming. Maybe that means you need to go out and find a specific pair of pants or short or something that is for your character. Whereas maybe at a bigger or more professional playhouse, they have a costumer, they have a seamstress or whatever.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: Okay. I mean, that's awesome, because that shows the dedication and time that these people put into this show. I mean, it's not just coming up and not that coming in. Singing and knowing your lines is easy, but it's much more than that. There's a lot more investment of our emotional and mental well being, and I money and, you know, time and to bring it alive. You know, something about this show that I think was very unique was how they used their stage. They just set the scene for everybody who wasn't there with us, obviously, is, you know, it's. It's a normal stage, but they. This show has three tiers, and so it goes, you know, there's. There's like the. It's the castle, and you have different stairs and you have different links. And at first, I was worried that I was like, someone's going to fall down these stairs. It was impressive for just like, like you said, possibly only a week at a time to build it. It's tall and it's large, and it does feel very looming of this. This. This foreboding castle that I was just like, wow, this is. This is fantastic. This was great.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah. A lot of moving pieces with that, with the cast, I thought it was very well thought out with limited time and space, stage being a decent size. But I did like the movement. There was some movement, you know, of pulling pieces apart and then, you know, maybe maneuvering them. So you didn't have to have six or seven blocks of scenery. You could just have, you know, maybe two or three rotate it, and it looks like something else, which is really just obviously great utilization of space and of your resources.
[00:10:41] Speaker A: It was very reminiscent of when we went to go see mamma mia. And they have just those two or three pieces that they kept rotating, and the settings would change and people would come out of the different entrances and exits and. But it definitely gave you the sense of that you were in different parts of the island, and you got that with this castle. You know, in fact, the only time that there was really anything different was when they were in the village or they were at Bell's house, and those were just pieces that slid on and off, and you could easily tell the story, drop the curtain, slide the pieces on, and you were good to go.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: Yeah. It leaves a lot more to the imagination, I think, which, of course, with a kind of fantasy tale, you want that. You want that good balance of we're bringing you into the fold, but also we're leaving some room for you to kind of envision what you want, and we're just putting the characters in front of you, for sure.
[00:11:34] Speaker A: And speaking of the characters, they have every single character you could possibly imagine, and everybody got these pieces that they got to kind of showcase. And so, you know, there, of course, there's the beast and Belle. I mean, I was blown away by Belle. I mean, Lauren Newerth, a fantastic job, really helped to bring the story to life and was just her singing voice, her, you know, her acting. It felt like Belle. You got that, like, that independent, free thinker in a society that didn't recognize her that way.
And so, you know, for me, that was a big selling point. I've always loved Belle. Belle's always been one of my favorites, not just because she likes to read, but that is definitely a plus.
And so for me, this was a huge selling point. And one of the pieces I walked away right away from and saying, wow, this actress is great in this role.
It made me want to start looking for her in other shows as she is in them. Was there anybody who stood out to you?
[00:12:34] Speaker B: Oh, gosh, there's so many, you know, most of them. I mean, obviously, like you said, lauren, she's a baller. Yeah, she's great.
She knows her stuff. She. Her voice and her just thatcher, like, it just fits the role very, very well.
But other standouts, I would say for sure, Cogsworth and Lumiere were both very, very well done. Their accents were on point.
The way that they navigated their costumes being a little bit more kind of that stereotypical bigger, you know, bigger than life type, but very, very well done.
I mean, just so many misses. Potts, the song Beauty and the beast, it couldn't have been. I. You could have compared it to the track because it was perfect.
So there's just. Yeah, I mean, the whole. The whole. It was cast very, very well.
Gaston as well. His vocals were perfect for that role. Of course, like me being the vocalist that I am, that's the first thing that I think of. But sure, yeah, the leads were just all super, very well done.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: And, you know, I just want to give a quick shout out to our Madame Lagrande Boosh, who had to walk around stage in probably what was one of the most difficult getups I had ever seen in a show. Did it all while singing, not falling over.
Mad props to that, because I couldn't.
[00:14:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And that wig. I mean, it wasn't really a wig. The cardboard wig, I should say. Well, no, she did have a wig at one point.
Yeah. I mean, first off, my neck would be so tired of.
But yeah, during, I think was it be our guest? I was like, that is a whole lot of movement in a whole lot of costume. And anyone who can stay standing deserves props because I 1000% would have fallen flat on my face.
[00:14:58] Speaker A: Especially there's one part during, I think it's be our guest when she's walking backwards.
And I'm just like, how Kylie Wyand ever did it, I will never know. But good for her because she sold that role. I mean, again. But you're right. Everybody was fantastic. And something specifically about Cogsworth and Lumiere that I just want to point out is that their characters were also one of the. Some of the only ones that were changing through the show, which was a really cool effect that you don't get in the animated but you do get in the live action film, is that they're becoming more of their.
The more of the objects that they are. And so the bit with Cogsworth, played by Mitchell Conti, who just has the. The winder in his back, and I was just like, that was a really cool touch. I'm not sure if that's actually in the Broadway show. If it is, that was awesome.
But I really liked that. Like, you got to kind of feel how their world was changing, and that adds, that ups the ante a little bit for these characters and trying to become human again.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: Yeah. I was also curious as to if that is in the original production. If not, what a creative, creative thing.
But just really good writing, too, because it makes the characters not as stale, because you do have things that are changing and adjusting and how that affects their personalities throughout as well.
[00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And it makes the story more well rounded because the traditional story is about Belle and the beast, and now you got the story of these other characters that are also just having, um, the worst time of their lives because of, uh, the. The cruelty and the actions of one individual. Was there anything about this production that maybe surprised you, especially with your. With your production? Was there anything that was just like, wow, you couldn't believe it, that we maybe haven't even talked about yet?
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Um, I would say the fact that they went for the cup choreography or the mug choreography during Gaston, I know that that is not easy to choreograph and it's not easy to do. So I was very. And I know that a lot of shows, you know, sometimes when those things out of the broadway production, they are so difficult. They just kind of cut them on community level because it's too hard. So I was happy and excited to see that they kept that in and that they did the whole thing.
And it was very well done. Shout out to the choreographer as well, because I'm sure that had to take days, and I can't say that I would be any good, but, yeah, that was a standout moment as well.
[00:17:53] Speaker A: It reminded me, you know, back in December, I saw the Rockettes, and it reminded me of, like, their. Their kick dances and stuff, and I was like that. And they spoke when I did a behind the scenes, like, tour, and they spoke about how difficult it is to be synchronized for that. But they practice it even between performances because it's near impossible. And the fact that I was. I was very impressed with that as well, that that was a really cool moment and something that you can don't have in that original animated show, like, at all. I am gonna, though, say, and this is not against their production because I did find out that this is part of the show. Disney needs to change their act one finale song that didn't do it, especially when you have evermore, and I know you had everybody, I want to let you know, RJ had to hear me obsessingly talk about how evermore is a fantastic song for days or weeks after this show. But I hope that they incorporate that into the Broadway show because the act one finale needs a little bit of work, and it's not anything against them. Ryan Gigliotti. I'm sorry if I butchered that name, but did a fantastic job with that song. It was fantastic. It deserved all the cheers that it got. Disney needs to figure out something else for that.
[00:19:00] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, a little bit. It's a tad anticlimactic. I mean, that song is still. It does have a climax, but it's just. I think with the pace of the show, it's not what you're expecting. And then I. The curtain falls or, you know, the lights go up and you're like, oh, intermission.
So, yeah, it's. I get why they placed it there because timing wise, there's just, like, there really is not a good part, but it does.
It feels a little weird. It feels a little imbalanced. Like, act one feels, like long, substantially longer than act two.
And it isn't particularly, but it just feels that way, I think, because of the types of songs that are in each act. But that does play into that as well.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Right. And I feel, correct me if I'm wrong, but there was an. Also an additional song in the first act that I think it was Belle's song. Bell sang it, but that also added it was her and her father, I believe that made that feel longer.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The duet between the father and the. And Belle.
I mean, she's very vocal. I mean, obviously, she's vocal heavy the whole show, but she's very vocal heavy. Specifically in act one.
[00:20:28] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: And then act two, I feel like, was, like, five songs, and the show was overdeveloped. Yeah. The writing, the scripting, the book on that, you know, can have our opinions.
[00:20:42] Speaker A: Yeah. It just. Maybe. Maybe Disney needs to make a little bit of changes for the 25th anniversary. That's all I'm saying. But this did not impact this show. This production on our own productions did a great job bringing this to life. Beauty and the Beast, and I'm actually really excited to see what they do next year, because if I remember correctly, they do one show a year, correct?
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Yes. Yep.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: So we'll be back, don't you worry, and we will be seated and ready for whatever story you bring us.
I want you. I'm gonna let you take the reins on this one, because I'd seen this in New York already, and I just need to know what your thoughts on this show without me saying anything.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: I mean.
Dracula, a comedy of terrors at the Ringwald in Ferndale.
I mean, before I even talk about the show, I was very surprised when we initially walked in, and it was such an intimate setting.
I'm not really sure what I had, what I had in my mind, but not even the intimate setting. But the fact that the show was set up in a round, very immersive, very intimate, is always super cool. Like, that's just a great setup. It's a great way to do a show if you can do it that way. The show kind of is built that way.
I didn't have any expectations going into the show. I mean, I remember forever ago seeing, like, one or two TikToks. I didn't even know what the show was. I just knew, because, of course, there's Broadway stuff on my TikTok.
So when it came up and when we saw it that it was going to be showing, I did not know what to expect, aside from what I had heard from others.
But I was shook. I was greatly impressed going in with no expectations.
[00:22:52] Speaker A: I have to say, going back to what you said about this theater, I want to give mad props to everybody who is involved with this, because when you have a theater that's this close and intimate, it gives you that. It gives audience members that up close and personal experience and feel and like, you're part of the show, but also, if there's a mistake, there's no hiding it. You can't, you know, when you mess up, everybody sees it. Everybody's part of that. And so there's a lot of pressure in trying to produce a show in that kind of setting. I wasn't expecting that at all. And when we went in there, I was like, this is really cool, because when I had seen it in New York, you are separated still. There's the stage, and then there's the audience, and there's the clear marker where we're supposed to be and where the actors are going to be. But at the Ringwald, you're wrapped around their stage like, you are wrapped around what they are working with. And so when we sat on the side of the stage, closer to the back of the stage, you got to see everything, including moments where they're breaking and, like, they're trying to hide it, but they can't hide it from us because we're right there. And that made the show even more enjoyable. I will say this, having seen it in New York, this was by far the better of the two, which feels weird to say because most people assume they're like, oh, you're going to know Broadway to see a show. It's probably the better quality. You know, people have that stigma. But this was, I mean, these actors were fantastic. The show was pretty much the same, but it had a lot more topical jokes to it.
I died when Dracula did the hot two and stood on that thing like, I like that Washington. We were living in that moment, and that that joke was there. And be it if that was improv or that was written into the show, like, as a choice, it was. It was funny because you could feel like, oh, we were bonding in this moment, you know, where we've all been there, we've all heard this. And I was really excited about that aspect of the show, and I'm really glad that you enjoyed it because I couldn't stop singing praise for the show back when I went to New York. So getting to see it again was exciting.
[00:25:00] Speaker B: Yeah. And I mean, full disclosure, I'm not typically a comedy person, especially in live theater, especially, like, slapstick or just, like, over the top gaudy comedy.
And just thinking on it now, it was kind of giving me, like, spamalot vibes in regards to humorous and just the.
And obviously, I haven't seen it aside from this production. But the way that they built the audience in and broke that, that wall was very unique. And they played off of it, like you mentioned, like, those moments that maybe you wouldn't have caught if they were further away on a stage of, you know, if your audience is hysterically laughing. I mean, laughter is infectious. So there were multiple moments that people were just dying. And, you know, to a point where the actors and actresses also started to, you could just see it come across their faces. And at that point, like, you're all just having a good time. And so it doesn't even, you don't even care that, that you're seeing their humanity because it's just, that actually makes it funnier because, you know, how hard they're working to stay in character. And so to break that, it's almost there feels like this level of achievement, I think, an audience has when they can pull someone out of character. It's like you have somehow leveled up because you broke a that character by laughing ultimately at that character.
Yeah.
[00:26:55] Speaker A: It's, like, very reminiscent of, like, a Saturday Night Live where it's, you know, you get to see them even if you're watching it from home, you're seeing them break these characters and they're trying their hardest to get it together. And those are some of the funniest bits. Those are bits that a decade later, me and my friends still talk about. And with this show, I mean, these are the moments that we even talked about going back and being like, oh, here's this moment where, you know, Lucy broke character and is trying to hold it together, but, you know, is struggling. I think it was, it's really cool when you get to see that.
But you're right, this is a very particular set of humor.
In fact, we went and saw Daredevil, not Daredevil, Deadpool recently, and it was a similar level of humor. But you didn't like it there, but you liked it with Dracula, which speaks to the show.
[00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And there's just obviously something about, as we all know, live theater versus, you know, film theater, but that the ability to alter the state of that current performance and it being unique to every audience that sees it, it makes live theater exactly what it is. And that's why people come back.
[00:28:11] Speaker A: Absolutely.
Did you like this version? Because this is a retelling. I kind of picture this in the same vein as a wicked or, like a spam a lot. You're kind of poking fun at this original story.
Do you think that it did well at both honoring the source material but also making something new and enjoyable?
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's been a minute since I have read Dracula.
And for some reason, my memory was not, didn't quite align with the story that was happening. So I was trying to discern, uh, you know, what was. What was truth and what was, um, you know, a play on the truth. But it obviously, the storytelling came across very well. I thought, um, you know, with this production, you are playing, you know, multiple roles. Each actor is playing multiple roles. And I thought that was super well done because the characters were so distinct, even if the costuming had minimal changes or at some points, you know, they didn't even have time. And that was part of the humor, too, was that they barely had time to, you know, change a wig or change a costume. And so you're just getting, you know, such and such actor's voice with this character, and then 3 seconds later, another character.
I thought it was an interesting spin on the story.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: Sure. I mean, so when writing, you know, I've written two reviews for this show now, and so I've. When I write a review, I do a lot of background looking things up. The story itself of Dracula is very much changed from the story, but there's also. Most of it is still there.
And so they get to play on a lot of that, that subtext of what was queer, because it is a very queer story, where in. When I saw it in New York, I felt like they didn't lean into that enough, which I thought was interesting because it did have a lot of queer actors on stage and stuff. And I felt like they did lean into that quite a bit more for this production, specifically, more of, like, what is the queer culture of now? Like, we've seen a lot more, like, the leather and I stuff like that. But there are, like, the essence of the story is there. So I think it's interesting when you take that essence, you know, you take the story of, like, everybody knows wicked, everybody knows some form of Dracula, and you play with that, and you get to have this story that's just unique but recognizable. And I think that brings people in for that reason. You know, if I recognize a story, I'm more likely to go see it.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: Right, right. And with. With the title being exactly what it is, you don't really know exactly what you're gonna get, honestly, until you sit down. And, I mean, I feel like the scene is set pretty. Pretty early on, but I loved the amount of interaction with the audience that this production had. Their utilization of the space literally coming from every corner of the room. And then the sound effects, too, were a massive, obviously, part of the humor, but just felt you know, super well timed and very immersive as well.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: You know, there were some things when you mentioned sound that stuck out to me. They did change some of it, probably to make, again, an easier production. But, like, the scene where, like, Dracula comes out of, you know, he says, dracula, nice to meet you. And then in the original production, it's like a very slow, sexy song. But this one, it was like a club song. And then when Miles Bond is playing the multiple suitors, it's puppets, which to me was more hilarious than the big, huge puppets that they use in the show. It's like puppets on a big stick, and, like, he's like, they're human size, and these were just little, tiny hand puppets. And I like that they were able to play with that to probably make a cheaper production, but also to just up that ante in the humor of the show, which was just, again, I enjoyed this a lot. I enjoyed it more the second time than I did the first time, and I almost wish I would have seen it one more time just so I could have been like, you know, this, like, this is one that I would have seen multiple times and had a great time.
[00:32:32] Speaker B: Yeah. If, you know, if there had been more shows after us of seeing it, I would have recommended it to folks. I would have maybe even gone and seen it again. It was. It was incredibly well done.
[00:32:49] Speaker A: Absolutely. What did you think of having the, like, the gender bent roles? You know, I think that that leans into that queerness quite a bit, and they leaned into that comedy a little bit, too, because you kind of had this reflection. You know, there's one point where Joe Bailey is talking about how refreshing it is that a guy is talking about themselves, and you get this, like, you get, like, this meta ness of. Through multiple lenses. Do you think that added to the show?
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah, and I appreciated. I mean, there's so, historically, there's so much around, um, men playing women or even, you know, dare I say, like, kind of drag esque without calling it drag. Um, and I almost felt like this role actor took that stereotype or kind of negative connotation and just whipped it out. I mean, it just. It was so well done.
The delivery, they were very engaged in what the vibe of the audience was. And just, I remember there was a. I think a joke that they align that they had, and just based on the audience's feedback, they were adjusting their line.
[00:34:14] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:34:15] Speaker B: And it just. It was very. Yeah, it was very now it was very.
Read the room.
And, I mean, really, that was for the whole production. There were a couple spots where it just was like you knew who your audience was.
And just for context for folks, this theater was in the affirmations building in downtown Ferndale, which, for those of you who don't know that is like the lgbt center kind of for southeast Michigan, probably one of the bigger ones in Michigan. And so you just know, looking around that room, that you have ton of folks who probably are living some type of queer experience and who can appreciate, from a theatrical sense, a kind of queer twist.
There were obvious moments, there were extreme moments, but just some of that gender bending and even play on words around the gender bending, I thought was really good, really unique.
[00:35:34] Speaker A: I do, you know, before going to see the show, I had text my friend who had seen the show with me in New York, and I said, you know, we're going to what is kind of like the gay capital of the gay capital. You know, affirmations is this very well known organization. They do a lot of great work, but it is LGBTQ focused in the middle of Ferndale, which is what our, you know, LGBTQ headquarters in Michigan.
And I was like, they're doing Dracula, a comedy of terrors. And she responded with, oh, no, it's not gay enough. And I was just like, yeah, there's like, there's not enough.
In the original production, I didn't feel like there was a lot that was giving to the story. But would you look at the makeup of, you know, our actors? And then you get the makeup of the audience and those who are behind the scenes in doing the work?
The fact that it was in a theater that is focused on the queer experience, you got more of the queerness just because of the makeup of the people who were there and the people who were involved. And that made for the story to feel more genuine, and you got a little more connected with it, and you felt a little more represented in this story that it's supposed to be talking about queerness and, you know, gender roles and gender itself and sexuality. And so I liked that we got this spin, and I think a huge shout out to the director as well. Brandy Jo Planbeck, like, did a great job bringing this show to life, and I hope that this is not the last time that we get to see Dracula, comedy of terrors.
We're going to go to our last show then guys and dolls, which we just saw, like, a week and a half ago, which I don't know if I told you this, but one of the actors in Beauty and the Beast was in guys and dolls as one of our main characters. And I kept staring at him in the show, and I kept saying to myself, I know that face. I think this is one of those instances where you start to realize, like, the community is yay small, you know, and people are showing back up. But Nathan Detroit was one of the characters in Beauty and the Beast. And I just thought that was, like, this really cool connective tissue as I was playing this episode of, like, from start to finish. We have this one person who has been doing shows throughout Michigan.
Did you. Did you recognize him when you saw Nathan Detroit?
[00:38:00] Speaker B: Did not. But I'm also incredibly bad with names, and there were so many people in both productions, but that makes. Well, I remember us discussing the fact that he seemed familiar, so that that makes sense to me.
[00:38:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And finally it was copy and pasting the list, and I said, wait a second, I just saw that name, like 20 minutes ago.
So it was interesting that we have this.
Just a little bit of backstory, though. For those who don't know, guys and dolls is a story. It's a very classic musical. It's one of the epitome of, like, if you're gonna do Broadway, you gotta know guys and dolls. It's the story. It's a love story between two different couples, Nathan Detroit and Adelaide, who have been together for a long time, but are not married. And again, this is set during the forties or fifties.
I think it's the fifties. I could be wrong here. And then you have the story of Skye Masterson and Sarah Brown, who are the complete opposites. Skye Masterson is a high rolling gambler, and Sarah Masterson is the leader of a missionary group. And they also fall in love because of the bet. It's very. She's all that for those of us that grew up in the nineties. And you need that reference.
This production was put on by, nicely theater group. This was out in West Bloomfield at the Berman center of the Performing Arts.
And as RJ, I'm sure, you know, I did not know this show before seeing it, um, at all. I had never seen this. This classic tale. You know, we have the movie version with Frank Sinatra. But if I remember correctly, you were familiar with guys and dolls, is that correct?
[00:39:45] Speaker B: A little bit. I mean, for sure familiar with the music of guys and dolls, because it is. I mean, the. The generation of musical theater singing that I grew up with, you just. You couldn't buy a musical theater songbook without it having a song from guys and dolls. And I did see the show, probably one of the first shows I saw in my young adult life at just a local high school production of it.
But of course, I was enamored and so.
But was very familiar, less familiar with the story, more familiar with the music.
[00:40:25] Speaker A: Which makes sense because this has a lot of songs that, again, I didn't even know where a part of the show because my grandmother has seen them. To me, you know, a bushel and a peck was one that she sang a lot, which I found out was a song that the dancers, which, you know, were the risque parts of the show back in the day they were performing, but it was a song that my grandma would sing to us grandchildren quite frequently. And so, you know, it's interesting that, like, this music has transcended, but maybe the story has not. What do you think that's kind of says about the. The show? Not this production, but, like, the actual show, guys and dolls?
[00:40:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it is a little bit bizarre to me because the music itself, I can't say that it's super standout ish from any other classical musical theater. And just for reference, like, when I say classical musical theater, I'm thinking, like Rogers and Hammerstein, Sondheim, like those big name items.
But. But, yeah, like you said, like Bushel and Peck, I think because these shows in their era, I mean, they were. They were at the height of their era when they came out and people related them to them.
And, of course, like, love stories always do very well.
Sure. But I'm just thinking about a time, and I'm not exactly sure of the timeline of when this show came out, but, um, you know, we have a decades ago history of. Of war and, um, kind of that, like, you know, the man has left and the woman's waiting around for him to return. It kind of gives me that push and pull. Many, many of the musical shows of this era. Another one like King and I, you know, like Cinderella, you're just. You have this dynamic of there's some female independence, but guys and dolls is probably the most female independent. This is probably, like, cutting edge for when the show came out, to have a woman who was kind of a little bit standoffish, very similar to music. Mandy probably be the next in line where you have a woman who can do it herself and she needs no man.
And that is not particularly theme of the decade.
So it was a new idea, a new thought, and that's probably honestly why some of these titles did do so well, because it is now, looking back, you don't get musicals like this anymore. It's just a different generation, a different feel. So to have this kind of classy old love story, that shouldn't happen, but it happens. And that's, dare I say, without old timey.
It. You know, it's different than what? Like, I can't imagine someone writing this today, for sure.
[00:43:44] Speaker A: You know, this show guys and dolls brought, debuted on Broadway in 1950, and I looked up the music man because I'd seen that in New York as well, and that was 1957. So it's interesting that this decade saw this, like you said, this. This independence, like, don't need no man attitude when back then, that was probably incredibly. I mean, that was taboo. We know that.
But, yeah, no, guys and dolls does have a very classic old school feel like this. Again, this is the story that my grandmother would have wanted to watch. She also loved watching Oklahoma, and I've never watched that. And so, you know, I've never watched the king. And I. You mentioned that one as well, and I was like, oh, there's another classic. You know, so this is one of those very classic love stories, which was.
That was perfect for that time. Look at sound of music, one of my favorites. But it's a love story, you know, that's what sold musicals was having that love story feel. What I think is interesting about guys and dolls, though, too, is that it balances the romance with gambling and the manly thing to do, and all these men are meeting in sewers to roll dice, and there's definitely.
They're carrying guns. And, like, for the 1950s, it was interesting to see that balance of, like, we have a little bit for the boys and we have a little bit for the ladies.
[00:45:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that you kind of had two plot lines happening is also more different than maybe what we're used to. The only other show, again, a classic that I can think of that kind of does that maybe is Oklahoma or carousel. Once again, these are all probably within the same decade of each other, but where you have this, you have the primary couple. You have the secondary couple, if you can even kind of call them that. But very, you know, you're cheering for this guy. You're not sure about that guy, but in the end, you always typically end up cheering for them to get together because that's the way that it's written. And this obviously, like you mentioned, being unique in the sense of it's not your traditional goody good guy. They're gamblers. They are, you know, sinners, and they need a lot of luck. And it's. It's almost. It's a good balance of, yeah, we have a love story, but also just the. The reality of that setting, the reality of the times with it being New York City and not always having to have, you know, the. The White Knight story, but just like a.
Here's the other guy side of things.
[00:46:38] Speaker A: Sure. Absolutely. It does paint a very. I think they do a good job of painting a story that is not one sided in that there's necessarily good and bad, but everybody's very nuanced in this show. There's a lot of, you know, Sarah Brown is just as, you know, a much of a center as sky, depending on what you're looking at, what the story is that you're kind of depicting there.
And I liked that. I liked those characters and how they interacted. And it's overall just a really funny show.
You know, Nathan Detroit and Adelaide feel a little more added for comic relief. While they were essentially, you know, the other couple in the story, it was very much the story of Skye Masterson. And something that you had mentioned while we were at the show, I should say, is you kind of mentioned that it felt more like a concert with how the stage was presented. What made you, like, what made that kind of have that feel for you?
[00:47:32] Speaker B: Yeah. So the fact that they had a 19 piece ensemble on stage in a yemenite big band setting, I don't know that I've ever seen a show like that, or at least a musical theater show, probably a big band show, but down to the, you know, dressing the part, having their stands be kind of like the old school boxy, exactly what you would have seen at a big bandaiden in a big band club.
Very appropriate for the setting of New York, but just interesting because obviously, then having, you know, nearly 20 folks on stage, it doesn't leave a lot of room for an actual set. And so while they had a lot of kind of pieces that came from the ceiling and kind of draped, overdose them, a lot of signage to kind of set the scene for New York or wherever they were, I think maybe there was only, you know, a couple benches that came on and off in regards to actual set pieces.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, so you have, like, the newsstand and you have the phone booth, but. And you have a few benches, but. And during the. The salsa dancing, you had the one table. Other than that, there was. It was very simplistic and it allowed the actors to showcase their singing and to showcase their. Their acting skills. And more so than having big, flashy sets that were maybe distracting or had a lot going on.
[00:49:17] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, you really. You're just bringing attention to the. The vocal ability, the acting ability. And honestly, when you have a 19 piece orchestra, you want to highlight that. It's so rare nowadays to have even a live orchestra. I hate to say that, but it's true. Many productions, especially local, are going to tracks because it's cheaper, and that's what they can afford. And so I absolutely understand why you would want to be highlighting this incredibly talented group.
And equally, it's a very dance heavy show, and so it gave them the space to be able to do these massive dance numbers without having any worries about set pieces or limiting those steps because of additional walls or anything like that, for sure.
[00:50:18] Speaker A: Absolutely. And what was cool about this production is I got to see a little bit of that back behind the scenes stuff. When I did went to the dress rehearsal, and there was a huge emphasis of, like, making sure there's enough room for all the dancing and, like, moving the benches. And they were testing out a lot of different things, but it was all to showcase their talent. And this cast was. And the orchestra, but, like, there was so much talent on this stage. Everybody was, you know, their dancing was superb, and the singing was fantastic. And they made this show something extremely enjoyable because it was one of the highest quality shows around. And granted, this is a professional theater, and they put a lot of time and effort into this. And the owner is a producer on stuffs, the musical. So that's also a great connection that we love that, but there's just a lot of effort that they put into the show. You can just tell that the love and the care to bring guys and dolls for which the theater group is named to life. I also wanted to point out, though, something cool that happened was that there was a lot of interaction with the audience, and they actually interacted with you, and it turned out pretty cool.
Go ahead and tell the.
[00:51:31] Speaker B: What a unique spin. So, just to give some context, part of this production is a kind of small salvation army type band walking through the streets of New York, kind of handing out pamphlets to, quote, unquote, sinners to come to their prayer meetings. And so, of course, you have this band walking through the aisles of the theater, and Sarah Brown herself is handing out these leaflets.
While I have seen that done before, usually the leaflet is like a fake piece of paper, or it's just.
It's not real or what have you. But I was noticing there was a couple times where it happened. The first time, I immediately noticed the giving of it seemed very intentional, like she was ensuring that she was getting rid of all of them. And they looked big, like they weren't, like some tiny little sheet of paper that people would just throw on the ground.
[00:52:38] Speaker A: Right?
[00:52:39] Speaker B: And so, yeah, a second or third time she came around, she walked by me and handed me the pamphlet.
And on the front, at first, I, like, didn't pay a ton of attention because I am the most avoidant person when it comes to being interacted with in a show.
[00:52:59] Speaker A: Valid.
[00:53:00] Speaker B: But the front of it said, you know, like, sinners come basically, you know, come to our meeting.
And so I didn't. It was a, it was a folded brochure, and I did not open it at first because I was like, oh, haha. Like, okay, expecting the middle portion to be empty, just to be like a piece of blank paper.
And I think about, gosh, like, 2025 minutes later, I opened it up just by chance and saw that there was text in it. And lo and behold, there's basically a little blurb about the fact that while, you know, gambling is a sin, they still wish us the best of luck. And there is a scratch off lottery ticket inside there. And I just thought, you know, like, what a cool, interesting, very unique. I've never seen that done in any capacity at any other theater, professional or non, to just kind of, it made me chuckle. You know, it's a great way to promote the show. I mean, if you have a multi show, multi weekend show, honestly, that could be something someone can take, you know, with them and say, hey, look, I went to this guys and dolls show. It was amazing. I got this hilarious lottery ticket and, you know, there you go, another ticket sold. So very unique.
Definitely, definitely made me laugh.
And it just made me, you know, automatically think, where can I apply this in future productions that I do? Because it's a very, very good idea.
[00:55:06] Speaker A: Absolutely. In fact, you were laughing and you actually tapped me and I couldn't stop chuckling for the longest time because it just was, like, not expected, but it was like the perfect way to just, like, add another layer to that show because it's like an inside joke for the people who got it. And there were some people who were refusing them. And it was just that extra level of just added, added goodness to guys and dolls that, again, it's great to talk about. People are going to be talking about that. Anybody who got those is going to remember guys and dolls because they got a lotto ticket in a pamphlet that they took. Like, that's a cool way to interact with the audience.
[00:55:48] Speaker B: Well, and exactly that. Like a lot of people did just kind of say no or just kind of like, you know, because they are avoiding, much like me avoiding the actors and actresses.
But gosh dang, after that, you'd be like, man, I really wish that I would have. I would have taken that great way to encourage involvement or engagement during a show.
And I know. I don't know if it was towards.
Maybe it was after luck be a lady.
There were a couple moments that they used those, like, hand. I don't know what they're called. Air cannons.
[00:56:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:56:33] Speaker B: And, you know, like, sometimes you see productions with, like, streamers. That's pretty normal. But after, I think luck be a lady.
At first, I couldn't figure out what they shot, but they were foam dice.
[00:56:45] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:56:46] Speaker B: That were, like, the size of probably my fists. They weren't small.
And once again, just props to the creative team on all of these, because those are things that, like, you don't have to do. But you made a decision for that interaction, for that engagement, even for that humor, for people to, you know, for sure. Especially. I mean, I don't know how many kids were there, but I can only imagine, as even a young adult, going to a production and, like, getting to take home a dice from this show, you keep that for too many years.
[00:57:29] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:57:29] Speaker B: But it's just. It's a core memory for them, which it just makes the production value so much better.
[00:57:35] Speaker A: Absolutely. Like, I would have held onto that dice forever, and it was, what better way to make people remember show than to get them involved in it? And any theater that can do that, be it, even if there's a separation, I don't know if you remember, but when I talked about Saweeni Todd in New York, I said it was, like, cold, and there was, like, the darkness, and there was, like, these things that they did to bring the audience into the story. And, like, that was something that I remembered, and it stuck with me. And six is really good at doing this, getting people to get up and dance. And, you know, we saw this with Ann Juliet, and, like, there's.
The more you can get the people involved, the more they're gonna remember your show. And word of mouth, we all know, is one of the biggest proponents to selling tickets and to getting people to attend your show. When people talk, they're gonna want. They're gonna either say great things or they're gonna say bad things, and that's gonna dictate if somebody else goes and sees your production.
[00:58:29] Speaker B: Yeah. And most of these places do not have the marketing.
If, you know, if they even have a marketing person.
I'm sure the budget is minimal, so it is the cast members responsibility to push sales and publicity.
But also, yeah, these little gestures of audience engagement and taking that back home and saying, hey, I had a really good time. You should go see this.
[00:59:00] Speaker A: And looking forward. We don't have much in August, unfortunately, but we do have Shrek the musical coming up, the first show for Broadway in Detroit, which we'll be seeing next Friday, and have a subsequent podcast about it as well.
And then it's pretty much nothing until September. So we're going to be.
Well, I mean, we're going to be busy, but it's a little bit light of productions this month. Are you looking forward to Shrek at least?
[00:59:31] Speaker B: Yeah, I have never seen it.
I've never seen the live production, so I am interested in seeing, of course, the costuming.
It's gonna be humorous. I know. And the makeup for sure, too. Obviously, you have a lot of fantasy happening, so really interested in the overall production. Looking forward to it.
[00:59:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. And, you know, looking forward to the months. We are going to have some local productions coming out, but our next show after that is Moulin Rouge again with Broadway in Detroit. Super excited to show you that one. I know it's one of my favorites, and I've raved about it, so I hope it lives up to expectations.
But all this to say that we have a couple great months coming up of shows and of productions and some that maybe we're even starring in, but not me. Don't, don't, don't let me fool you. I'm not starring in anything, but we are really excited to see some of these local houses.
Do you want to say anything about what you're going to be in, or do you want to let people get. Wait and see.
[01:00:37] Speaker B: I can. I can.
I will be in a local production of Sweeney Todd at Avon Players in Rochester Hills, Michigan. Super excited. Insanely talented cast.
It's been a minute since I've really stepped on stage in a character role, so it's a new venture for me, but definitely exciting also to just be out in the community again, hearing from folks who have been immersed in this community network that we're now immersed in from this side of things.
[01:01:22] Speaker A: Absolutely. So if you're in Michigan and you are looking for something to do, any of the weekends of September, get your tickets for Sweeney Todd now. They are on the website. You can purchase them.
I'm not just saying it because RJ's in it. I'm sure it's gonna be great. I've seen some some clips from their websites. It's talented individuals. You do not want to miss the show as well. Get your tickets for a strike, the musical and Moulin Rouge as well.
Again, you can get those on Broadway in Detroit, but support your local theaters. Go out and see some shows. Let's have some fun, people. And with that, thank you for listening to another episode of the Cosmic Curtain. Don't forget to, like, follow and subscribe to us at boxybabes or at my cosmic circus.
And if you're interested in finding us outside of our box seats, please check us at our socials. I am Brian Kitson. My social is 301.
How about you, RJ? Where could the people find you can.
[01:02:19] Speaker B: Primarily find me on the gram handle being journey through. Underscore. The underscore, past underscore. And for those of you who are as obsessed with Anastasia as I am, that will.
[01:02:33] Speaker A: You heard it here first. Everybody.
Till next curtain call. Have a great day. Bye.
