Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Bright Lights of Broadway. This is the Cosmic Curtain, the official podcast of Cosmic Circus Broadway. I'm Brian Kitson, head writer at the Cosmic Circus and Cosmic Circus Broadway. And joining me as always, is my co host and Fellow Boxy Babe, R.J. miller. Zelinko, how you doing today, sir?
[00:00:15] Speaker B: I am just getting over the immense amount of emotions of seeing what we will be talking about today.
[00:00:28] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, all those. I also have emotions about this show. It's. It's going to be a fun one.
So for those who maybe are in the Detroit area, are probably, probably know that Les Mis. Les Misriables is back in Detroit as the latest bonus show of Broadway in Detroit season and we're going to be talking about it. So obviously, if you have not seen the show in the past 30 years.
Spoilers. There's lots of spoilers. There's lots. If you have not seen the movie, if you have avoided knowing anything about the French Revolution, you're going to want to not be here to listen to this, but to jump right in.
We're going to go ahead and talk about your previous exposure, Mr. R.J. to Les Mis.
Have you seen this show live before?
[00:01:19] Speaker B: So it's hard to say.
[00:01:22] Speaker A: What do they even mean?
[00:01:24] Speaker B: I. I technically have seen it in passing. When I was working at the theater in Grand Rapids, I was working the balcony section. And unlike the theaters that we have here in Detroit that are like, I mean, they. They're probably, I would say, medium size.
The devos place or devos setup is five levels and I was on level five, so it sits like 2600 people. And I was all the way at the ceiling.
And for anyone who has seen the show, it is very dark and so it is very, very hard to have any clue what is happening. So I really just, I think I tried to watch it for maybe the opening number and just. I couldn't see anything. I couldn't see anything. And so I heard it live, but I did not really see it live.
[00:02:33] Speaker A: That's fair because this show is mostly just people standing and talking. And so if you're up that far, first off, the fissure is not that big. I did not realize that DeVos was five levels.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah, it is very.
It's not really considered a theater because it's a place to attach to a convention center. I mean, that's where all of their Broadway shows are housed. And it is, it's a much larger house than a lot of places and it's way more spread out, way more spacious than I think Even the Fisher or the Fox or the. For sure the Opera House.
[00:03:15] Speaker A: So you've heard the show live but you've not seen the show live. I'm gonna give you that. I'm gonna give you that. There's no way you probably were able to enjoy and. Or visualize because I remember seeing Hamilton at the Fisher, I think a few years back and I was up in the balcony and you can't make out characters like, you know, their voices, but there's no way of seeing them actually perform.
So I'm assuming it's the same feel for that.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: For sure. Yeah. You're looking at specs, really.
Pull out those binoculars.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: 100%. So have you seen the film?
[00:03:49] Speaker B: I have. There's actually two films.
One musical version that is relatively infamous because it was our, you know, within our lifetime. And then there is a movie version of just the straight show that is like the OG and that is probably a pretty well aged film now. But I remember watching it because at the time there was no musical movie version. And I wanted to see the film, I wanted to see the acting. So I did watch that at a relatively young. I mean I was probably 13ish.
[00:04:33] Speaker A: Did it come before the musical? Because I know again, this is a book by Victor Hugo, you know, so I'm assuming that the. That the non musical movie probably came first for sure.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:04:44] Speaker A: Okay.
So I have prior. I have. The only prior experience I had with the show is the film. And I'm sure at this point you've heard me lament about this film.
For those who are unfamiliar with this, with this aspect of the show, this is where Brian talks about his time of disliking Les Mis. Because Les Mis is not my show.
And everybody was very adamant that the movie is not the best version. The stage version is the best version. If you didn't like the movie, you would probably like the show. So I tried to go into the show with a very open mind. But do you feel like the film is a good adaptation of the show? Having seen both now, it's okay to say no.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: I just. I don't know why I struggled with the film so much. It truly, I think it was due to the way in which it was filmed and not so much the content of the film and just the way that the audio was done. Like, I know there was live singing, but it would just.
We know how live singing can be done as we just experienced Wicked and it was immaculate.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: Thank you. Wicked.
[00:06:01] Speaker B: And we. We know how live singing should not be done and that's pretty much the entire film of Les Mis.
[00:06:09] Speaker A: From what I heard about Les Mis is that like, it was like considered pretty bad for what they put the actors through to film those scenes while singing and how it like, was like pretty disruptive to their vocal cords because they're like in all kinds of water, they're out in the cold. They're like doing all of these things. They're getting, I think at one of the scenes someone's getting rats crawled across them. And like, none of this was like, considered great. And like people actually kind of drugged the director a little bit because of how he approached that to get the live show. And I didn't know this till recently and I, when I heard that, I was like, oh, that's really interesting because all I remember is that it won Academy Awards.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Yeah. Which, I mean, again, some of the acting and even some of the singing, it's not that it was bad.
I just did not need to be 3cm from their face to know that they were singing live.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: You mean you didn't want to see Anne Hathaway's Fateen Fantine? However you say her name, you don't want to see her stop Bubbles.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: I mean, we love her. We love her. She was. Honestly, she was probably the same grace for me in the film also. Just because, like, I could go on and on and on about that character lines.
Yeah. Everybody else I met.
[00:07:28] Speaker A: Okay, that's fair.
So speaking of the story of the stage show that we just saw, this is kind of on. It's like, it's kind of like an anniversary tour in a way. It's going around. It's a, it's a big hurrah.
It's no longer on Broadway. But in this story we have Jean Valjean, which is. I had convinced myself prior to seeing it that his name was Jean Claude Van Damme, which that's actually just an actor. So as you can see, I pretty. I do all my action movies as well. But the story kind of starts off in like three, like two or three separate stories and kind of becomes one narrative.
What are your thoughts on this heavy story? It's very heavy. Like, what are you drawn to?
[00:08:14] Speaker B: I mean, it's a lot. I.
I remember listening to this show when it was on cassette tape and it was a two cassette, two sided tape and which I was like, oh my gosh, it's so long. It's takes so long to listen to. I think I was even listening to like the anniversary recording and wondering what the heck is going on? Because there was so much happening, especially at the beginning.
I was. And all. A lot of their voices sound the same, like character wise, you know, you have these like, kind of most of the time deep, rich male voices. And especially as a young person, I could barely discern who was singing what.
And so it is like I was thinking even last night for folks in the audience, there was actually, I think a group of women or young, young women behind us who have never seen the show. And it was interesting to hear, you know, their, of course, audible gasps and. And trying to figure out like exactly what the plot, what plot was happening or what stories were happening because it was a lot. So I think even at pauses or intermission, you'd hear them kind of be like, so this person is with that person which goes with that person who is on this side and they are over there, like, so it's.
It's almost like you have to do your homework before you see the show or you need to listen to it like a thousand times. Because they also picked up pace for all of the music, I think, which makes sense because it's a power ballad after power ballad. Power ballad.
[00:10:13] Speaker A: But that was a picked up tempo. Is it that the picked up paste, sir. That's what you. That's the hill. You want to die on it.
[00:10:20] Speaker B: It is though, like especially the ones that are typically super drawn out. Like, I mean, Fantine's massive. You know, I Dreamed a Dream is probably one of the number one audition songs of every young woman's life.
And it's usually just super elongated to kind of draw that emotion. And they were just like they were doing it, they were getting through it.
Same thing with Eponine later on.
So yeah, it was.
They were taking it a little bit up tempo, but enough to of course make it still very emotive, I was.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Going to say about that. When they started playing the overture at the beginning, I was shocked at how fast it was actually moving. Again, having never seen this live, I have not seen the movie in years. But I remember being slower than snail's pace. I remember just inching along like paint dried faster on the walls. I was just waiting for death and taxes during that movie.
And when he started his baton and I also liked that you could see him because for a lot of shows you don't see the conductor. And that gave it a very classic feel. As soon as he picked up that baton and he started waving, I was like, oh, we are actually going faster than I thought. But I just thought it was because I hadn't seen it in so long.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: Yeah, it definitely felt brisk. But I have known many kind of shows like this one that do have a natural, dare I say, kind of sluggish feel to them because of the slow moving music that intentionally choose on tours to pick it up to keep it moving. Because, let's be real, like, it's also a Thursday night at. In the. I mean, your show. The show run time's gotta be close to three hours, if not three hours. So you're. You're getting out super late. And so you also have to keep these audiences engaged and dare I say, awake, which even for those who are super into Les Mis, I mean, if you're. You're listening to ballad after ballad, it's almost. It's almost a nod to the artists and to the singers that if you do fall asleep just because they're singing so well, it's not even necessarily a bad thing.
I mean, bad thing in the sense that you don't get to see the show because you're sleeping. But sure, it happens.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: I was going to say that I was talking with someone today and I said, you know, the thing about the show is that it is ballot after ballot. And I was shocked. And I was like, I think that's what I don't like about it. I was like, it reminds me of like, you go to an Adele show, you know what you're getting? Like, you're getting ballad after ballad. And the response was, yeah, but at least Adele's interesting. And I think that that goes to like, what a lot of, like, people who grew up on, like, maybe less traditional musicals, which is interesting because I also grew up on traditional musicals. Sound of Music, west side Story, you know, Singing in the Rain. But like, a lot of these movie adaptations of classical musicals, and this one, it just. There's something about this show that does just feel very slow. And part of it could be that it is, in fact, a death march. Like, we are marching to the death of nearly every character on that stage. In fact, only two characters make it out of this musical alive.
[00:13:57] Speaker B: Well, and when. When you talk about, you know, storyline and we talk about narratives, there's. There's obviously the one. The one main. I mean, we're looking at Jean Valjean, we're looking at his life, his. His journey, and everyone that he brings into, you know, branching from him, but those of which he brings in, and I mean, subplots can be a lot for people, right? Like, it can be. You can kind of start to lose interest a little bit if you don't feel particularly drawn to a particular plot.
I think even last night when I was, you know, looking at Cosette and Marius and having recently been in Sweeney Todd, seeing the alignment of those characters and the same idea of, you know, kind of star crossed lovers who happen to make eye contact one time, they magically fall in love, they're going to run away together forever, they're going to defy all the odds and they're the only ones who live at the end.
It's, it's pretty much almost exactly the same.
And for, and I feel like, I mean, at least from other theater folks that I spoke to, ironically, those are some of the characters that like people like the least.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: I think part of it is, is that people like complex characters. So if we're going to talk about Sweeney Tata for a moment. Yes, there's a lot of parallels. We have a guy coming back to, you know, Paris slash London, you know, a Europe country from being in jailed.
There's, there's not really a revenge plot in Les Mis, but there is like a hunter, like a hunter hunty storyline. There's the daughter.
But I think what is the big difference is that people don't like Joanna. You're looking at. Oh my God. I was gonna call her Saltine. That's not her name. What is her name and name is.
This is bad. I just saw the show Kozak. Like they're very straight, kind of lame characters. Like they're very much like what you see is what you get. They're the good person. Heart of gold, blonde hair, sing like a canary. Like there's all these like very things that you hit. But then you take somebody who like.
What is the friend's name?
Epony. There you go. Sorry. Listen, I'm, I'm French, but I'm not good at speaking French. She's complex and she's interesting. So her songs hit differently because she's not just singing the straight up, I don't know, the operatic song. She's singing with little more. With a little more heart, a little more soul, a little more, you know, she's a little more, A little less black and white. She's a little more gray area. And you have Jean Valjean, who's also a little more gray area. And you know, and then you have some people who are just completely black who are like the bad guys. Like Thenardier who is just, you know, a comedic relief but also the bad guy and he's really funny.
I also would agree that Joanna is not one of my favorites. From Sweeney Todd. While her music is interesting because of what Stephen Sondheim does, her character is very bland. And so with Cosette, you also get a very bland character.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Yeah. Yep. Yes, to all of those things.
And I think the reason. Maybe we don't, or we all tend to lean, I think, towards characters that we can identify with or find pieces of the character that we identify with. And I think maybe there's a select few that they identify with said characters. I mean, Cosette, Marius, like.
And so if you don't, your likelihood to see them as real, it feels out of. Out of place. Whereas, like, I mean, I can't say that I particularly know or feel what Jean Valjean would, but I could say that there was a point in my life where I felt like I was under pressure for some, for a reason that shouldn't have been or something of that nature. And so, yeah, I mean, it. I think that's where the. The subplots struggle to gain traction is because, truly, if you're not, like, some super young person, naive with love, like, I'm uninterested.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: I think that there are things that, like with Jean Valjean or Fantine that are very. You do kind of get drawn to. So, like, for Jean and Valjean, I know knowing you and knowing both of us, we are both people who have done things because of. For lack of a better term, for, like, honor or for, like, family or for, like, standing up and being a good person. And from the beginning, he wants to be this kind of standup guy who maybe sometimes makes really silly choices in his life. He stole bread for his sister's child. He adopts a child because this lady's dying, and he decides that he's going to, like, repay her or, like, respect her. Like, there's this, like. There's this, like.
There's a sense that, like. Of things that we would do. And I know you. You go above and beyond for the people in your life, or you. You always strive to be, like, a really good person. And I'm the same way, too. So, like, that's very, very, like, relatable. Or like Fantine, like, you.
We've both done this. I'm sure other people have done this, too, where you've sometimes had to make really bad decisions or. That sounds bad. We're not making bad decisions, but we're doing. Sometimes we're doing things just to make it work for family, for friends, for those that we're responsible for. You know, sometimes we're driving 30 miles out of our Way to be there for a person because they need us, you know, where with, you know, Cosette and Marius. You're right. They're very young love. And, like, yes, we've all experienced young love, but, like, we're not exactly young. And love is. We know. We know the trials and tribulations of love. We're not so naive. We're not so able to just to be like, yeah, like, you know, that we don't see ourselves in that storyline. We see ourselves in those storylines of what is love. Love is giving up something completely to be with, to, like, to take care of somebody. Love is changing your entire life to take on a child that isn't yours because it needs somebody to take care of it and to love it. And those are, to me, like, the more relatable storylines of these characters.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: So with that being said, who is your favorite character wise and who is your least favorite character wise?
[00:21:10] Speaker A: Okay, I'm glad you asked this question. Thenardier. All the way that Madame Thenardier. And Thenardier. Okay, so. But listen, their songs were the most enjoyable. They were like, the middle of, like, we're having a ballad. We're having a ballad. Everybody's dying. Let's take a moment to laugh. Like, take a moment to have a good time. Let's, like, let's take a little bit of that.
If we're taking away the comedic aspect, I think that, again, I'm going to go with Jean Valjean because he is a very complex character. I do enjoy that epony as well.
I loved the adult or, like, the older version. I loved that storyline. Was I a little confused when they transitioned from child to adult because I didn't know who it was at first? Yes, that was an interesting choice. But I loved her character. I got also complex coming from, like, a family of almost like the villains, you know, she is. She wants to do good, and she's trying to do good, and she's trying to do it because she's in love as well. And her love was a little more interesting than Cozette's, who's just the pretty girl in a window who I was waiting to start singing about birds.
Least favorite.
I'm going to butcher his name. Sorry.
The police guy.
He was.
He was exactly who he was. I mean, like, it's interesting because Javert and Jean Valjean are like, they're doing the dance. And so, like, there were some scenes that were really cool where, like, with, like, the handcuffs when. Right after Fantine had died.
That was really cool. That was really awesome. But again, he was just a one dimensional character who, who served a purpose.
And I mean, if we're going deep, Marius can also just probably go away. I just. He was a very pretty boy.
Oh. But one more before I ask you, we're going to turn the question on you. But the child, like the main child.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Everroth.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Yes. I'm so glad I have you for this one because I would be absolutely lost.
Gavroche, that might be the best character in the entire show. Okay, how about for you?
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Oh, I feel like there's so many dimensions in which I would have to break this down. And because as we know, I come from a vocal background, Fantine will always be my number one for musically.
I dreamed a dream. I cannot tell you how many times I have performed that song.
It was my go to power ballad back in the day. And I think I made.
I made a couple rooms of folks cry with that one. It is, it is a great song. It's a great character. But I tend to lean towards the really depressing.
Like, if there is a character in a show, like, I am always somehow typically unlike my latest role, I'm typically the depressing person. Extremely emotional, depressing, heartbreaking character.
So. But with that, I mean, in addition, Eponine, but also because of the music, her solo as well, just heart wrenching.
[00:24:47] Speaker A: Have you sung that one before?
[00:24:48] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Both of those were probably like, if you were to look at like middle school, probably even to high school me for auditions, 1,000%. That was. They were my go to songs.
I mean, literally, Les Mis and Wicked. It was just. I would just float between those. These two from Les Mis and Defying Gravity and maybe wizard and I. And that was it. Those were my four roundabout audition songs. But anyway, characters, looks.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: I mean, but also like, but like, real quick, Lindsay, Heather Pierce is like your person too. Like, I saw her on Broadway as Elphaba and Wicked. Like, you have been talking about this individual since I've known you. I'm pretty sure.
[00:25:38] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I love her. I, you know, it's. It's just one of those, like, fandom situations where you're like, I basically know her because I've seen her in everything she's ever done, which is not true. I have not seen her and everything. I saw her when she toured with Wicked.
Gosh, I don't know. The years. I can't remember if it was right before COVID Might have been right before COVID And then I saw her when she toured with Mean Girls, which I Forgot about until I saw her most recent interview because she was Janice and of course she was. That makes tired, like, makes all the sense. And Janice being my favorite character in that musical once again, makes sense for her to then play Fantine.
When I saw her get this role on her socials because she announced that she was leaving Titanique, which I was like dying to go see with her in it, but I did not make it in time but then got to see her in this. So I'm really not that upset about it. But it was, it was. Yeah, she is. She's got a powerhouse vocals, an incredible actress, and just like a really cool human being in general from, you know, from the way outside fandom that I am.
[00:26:56] Speaker A: We love it. Okay, least favorite character. Give me it.
[00:27:00] Speaker B: I mean, we kind of already said like, Marius and I can't, I just can't. I mean, I could probably go into the nitty gritty of like some of the. I don't even know what they're called school boys. That just don't feel very important to me.
But when it comes to leads, like, I just.
But I also am not that, that type of person either. Like, I don't believe in this love at first sight type situation. So the whole thing for me, I.
[00:27:32] Speaker A: Kind of just pull my eyes people, I'm letting you know right now, this, this man has never believed in love at first sight. And so, like, I'm not surprised, I'm not surprised when he says like that.
What it makes the most sense though too. Again, we are in our 30s. We've. We've done the love at first sight thing. You know, high school, college.
Love at first sight doesn't really exist anymore.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: I mean, truly, like, if we want to get like all psyche about it, I'm sure that one of the reasons that I strongly dislike it or the character is because part of me probably thinks that I wish that there was so some form of that that was true. Because what a life to easily be. Like, that's the person. That's the person I want to be with for the rest of my life. Let's just sing a song and we're going to get married and it's all over from there. Like, what a life to lead. If that could truly be the case, dating apps wouldn't exist. Like, it would be fine. Life would be great.
[00:28:38] Speaker A: Someone should write a musical about that because I'd watch that. Like, I'll take a parody of. But at the same time, they did have to go through like a war to be together.
[00:28:46] Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, like, we brushed on the street, and then a war happened at the same time. And then your father dragged me through drains for miles on end, and I didn't even know until he was basically dead.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: It's interesting because we talked about kind of comparing it to Sweeney Todd, but there was also moments like the sewer scene where I was like, there's a little bit of Phantom of the Opera in here. You know, there's a little bit of, like, all of those kind of shows together intertwined. I'm just like, these classical shows, they hit these classical notes. You know, there's these things that have to happen. You gotta go through a sewer at some point.
[00:29:27] Speaker B: I mean, the opera of it. All right. And even the shows we just mentioned, Sweeney, basically an opera. Phantom of the Opera, obviously an opera. This one, also an opera. Like, if we just. It's like we need these key components for it to be.
For it to be true to its own story.
[00:29:45] Speaker A: So. Speaking of narratives, though, you know, I.
While I maybe didn't enjoy this, and we'll get into that later, obviously, if we started that. The narrative with that, we're going to end the narrative. But there is this story of revolution and fighting and freedom, and this is a story that has become very popular. Wicked, Hamilton 6, all these different shows have a very similar narrative.
Does it feel even more timely to have this touring right now? And we'll just kind of leave it at that? Like, it, like, does it make, like that part I kind of connected with a little bit. I was like, okay, people marginalized, people having. Trying to have a voice in a world where they don't have a voice. And that felt that. I think that was the thing I connected with the most of the show.
[00:30:33] Speaker B: Yes. And I do think that that is the pull that the show has on current. You know, on younger generations. I think this show normally would probably struggle to age. I mean, it's. At the same time, it's timeless because it is exactly what it is. But also from a musical theater standpoint, the younger generations, like, this is not what they're into.
And so.
But once you pick up on those pieces of, like, where does the plot really lie? What are. What are the tones that it's giving that I think you do kind of peak interest of? I mean, really all people, because on some level, most of us have felt some type of marginalization or feel as though we have been through. Honestly, especially post Covid, I feel like people feel like they lived through something that was big.
And I think every generation Kind of has their thing that. That is. That thing. I'm saying the word thing a lot, but some more than others. But sure, for sure. Yeah. That. That storyline, kind of. That underlying heartbeat of why does this even exist? Like, what are we actually.
What is the setting?
[00:32:04] Speaker A: I think what's interesting, too, about the show is that it deals with, like, kind of how people think that they're owed different things with their freedoms. So we have Jean Valjean, who just kind of wants to live. He just kind of wants to be. Doesn't want to have to deal with.
He's kind of like, almost like apolitical. He kind of wants to be outside of it all. He doesn't want to be. Like, it doesn't impact him. He wants to be. To just live and would not be hunted down. We have the young kids who are rising up, trying to bring about a revolution. And then you have the Thenardiers who are just like, we're owed everything because we've always been the bottom of the barrel. We deserve a spot at the top, and we're going to steal our way there. Which is also just. I think it's a very interesting way to approach just, like, how people are motivated and what they're motivated by. And I think it also kind of shows you, like, where you would probably fall in character relations as well. You know, like Jean Valjean and Fantine are just trying to live. They're just trying to be.
And I think a lot of people feel the way right now. I think that's why people maybe relate to them. We don't. A lot of people in my field that I'm talking to, they're not feeling the fight right now. They're feeling the hopelessness in the survival mode.
I just thought it was very interesting, too, how it approaches three separate, very distinct ways of approaching freedom and what people are owed.
[00:33:32] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that idea, like you said, of kind of starting at the bottom and then kind of having this mindset that because you. You reach a certain level or you go somewhere or you have this one thing, that it will somehow get you to the next one. I'm just thinking about that last scene at the wedding where he had taken, you know, as we know, he had taken his ring and whatever else it was, the watch, and then is re. Presenting it to him in a different way in hopes to become even. You know, basically to spin a tail. Right. And then it kind of backfires on him.
And, yeah, that is from a.
From a kind of cultural standpoint, it is interesting because it just Kind of makes you think, if that goes any other way, how does the story go? You know?
[00:34:27] Speaker A: Absolutely. I think that I would say the wedding scene after, I wasn't expecting. Because in my head, I thought it ended with, like, the revolution fight, you know, because in my head that I think that's how the movie ends, is that they're at the barricade. I don't know why I had that distinctly in my head that that's where it ends. Again, haven't seen this film in probably a decade. But it was interesting because, again, they came back and they made it like this grimy couple made it through it all and are trying to establish power once again, in a way. And there's this. They have such a distinct storyline. They go from the innkeepers of a really shabby inn to grave robbers to pretending to be some, like, a higher class than they were to get somewhere that they're not. And, like, I think that they have one of the most interesting storylines for such side characters, you know, and how they were kind of handling the French Revolution.
So that's something that definitely stuck out to me.
[00:35:30] Speaker B: I mean, what would we do without the comedic relief?
[00:35:34] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know. You were you.
[00:35:37] Speaker B: The entire time I was gonna say you. I did. I did not cry.
Shockingly, I think that the faster tempo was throwing me off a little bit because there wasn't a ton of time to just kind of sit and feel, which, with, you know, solo pieces, you can take more time because you're only listening to one solo at a time. Whereas when you have three hours of ballads, you have to keep it going. So. But for sure, there were definitely people crying all around. We heard all the sniffles, but there.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: Was a lot of sniffles. There was. But I do agree with you that there wasn't a lot of time, like, thinking about the death of Jean Valjean. That scene moved very quickly. Like, there was. There was one point where, you know, Lindsay. Heather Pierce was, like, running. Like, I swear, like, she was running to the back and, like, to come back, and I was just like, are you moving too fast? Like, because, like, again, there wasn't a moment to actually, like, process that he was dying until he was dead.
[00:36:39] Speaker B: Yeah, that scene specifically, too, did feel pretty quick.
And I just. I don't know. Maybe I'm not remembering the first very.
The ver. The first very little that I did see the first time around.
I don't remember it being that fast, but I could be.
I could be also thinking of the movie in which I'm. I'm sure things move substantially slower because it's a movie. They can do that well.
[00:37:09] Speaker A: But if you're looking at, like, I'm sorry, I'm gonna go back to Sweeney Todd, but I've seen it five times in a year. Let me talk about it so I get my money's worth.
I saw it twice on Broadway, once with you. And when you take what you guys did at Avon, that ending scene with Tobias, it was much slower at Avon than it was on Broadway. On Broadway, they sped that scene up where he's kind of, like, talking to himself and kind of going a little crazy, where Avon let it breathe. And you actually were able to have chills and kind of have some emotion with it.
But I remember specifically with Jolock, that scene was like, half the time.
[00:37:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's a character choice, it's an actor choice, it's a director choice. Sometimes.
I know our production messed around with it a little bit in regards to timing to kind of find a good in between. Because for sure, like, you can move too fast, you can move at snail speed, or you can kind of also depends on the audience. Like, how have they been behaving the entire evening? Because if they haven't been getting into it, if you don't feel it, you're probably gonna make it go faster, faster. Because it doesn't feel like they're getting it. So there's not a need to go slower to enjoy it.
[00:38:36] Speaker A: But, I mean, that makes sense. That makes sense. Okay, so I do want to switch to the music real quick, because this song is music heavy. Like, this is one of those musicals that, like, everything is sung. There's not much dialogue, which can, I think, can lose people, or it can gain people, depending on what they are. So my first question with you is this being ballad heavy, weren't you just, like, fucking tired? Like, I was exhausted. I was, like, mentally exhausted by the end. Like, and this is not a slight against the show at all, but I just was so exhausted because it is just a very ballad heavy show.
[00:39:14] Speaker B: I mean, like, do you leave, like, titter tapping and, like, excited? Obviously not.
I. There are some pieces in this show that I honestly just cannot stand.
I think that is the same for any show. But then equally, there are songs that I'm just like, yes. Like, yes, this is exactly what it should be.
And in that way, it's feels energizing because it's just so good. It's so fulfilling. Like, what you want it to be is exactly what it was so, I mean, exhausting in the sense of it is a long time to sit there.
And honestly, also, again, the scenic design, it's meant to be dark, it's meant to be dreary, it's meant to be depressing. And so too, like, my eyes almost had to readjust when they turned the lights back on because I was like, I mean, we've been in this, you know, basically grim and grimy.
The whole thing basically felt like a sewer. Aside from, you know, a couple scenes at the barricade, you feel dark and so easily. You're just on the edge of what could be sleep.
Um, but there's people sleeping. Also the emotional exhaustion, the emotional fatigue. And that's like. As a person watching it, I can only imagine how the actors and actresses are feeling after three hours of that. Because while it's not a particularly, like, motion heavy show, it is emotionally and vocally just brutal.
[00:41:10] Speaker A: It is. It is brutal.
That's a great term for that show. But you did see, like, the, like, the actors did look relieved when it was over. Like, we did it like we did another show. Like, not like it was like a Hoover. It's over. Thank God. I can't keep doing this. But, like, you could almost tell when they slipped out of their characters because it wasn't so heavy. It wasn't. So it didn't weigh them down. Because again, it's a. Weighs you down. Some of these songs, you know.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: I.
[00:41:38] Speaker A: Mean, I will say the standout song, I think, for me is the one with the drums. Like, you know, and like, it's the end of Act 1 and it's what Act 2 ends with as well. What is that? One more day.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: One day more.
[00:41:51] Speaker A: One day more.
I'm failing at this miserably, guys.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: I mean, God, there's gotta be like 40 tracks in this show so easily.
[00:42:03] Speaker A: It's a very, very heavy.
Again, we're constantly moving. There's sometimes not even time to clap between songs before we're moving to the next one. Like, usually, you know, Broadway show, they do the song, you clap, they wait a minute, you move on. But, like, there was times where, like, we were clapping and they were like, no, we gotta go, we gotta move on. Like, if we go any slower, we're gonna. We're gonna be running into traffic, you know.
So is there. I know you mentioned a few songs, but are there any songs that you're drawn to One Day More I think is gonna. Is my big one.
Again, Fatin's song is fantastic. Like, absolutely. This Is the thing about the show, I should say real quick is I can recognize from an artistic standpoint, it is a beautiful show. It is a gorgeous show. It is a fantastic show. I can. Part of that is the songs. Like that is a beautiful song like that. I can understand why people want to sing her solo. I understand why Lizzie, Heather Pierce left Titanique to do that, because that probably is a dream role to play and to sing that song. So there's a few songs that really did stand out to me, and those were just a few of them.
Any standouts for you?
[00:43:14] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, like I mentioned, those two solos, I Dreamed a Dream and On My Own, are probably the most renowned for the female characters of the show, I think.
And then for the males, Stars sung by Javert is, you know, kind of like a baritone's paradise. And I.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: Is that the song on the bridge?
[00:43:42] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:43:43] Speaker A: Oh, that's a. That's another tough song. And I think I did really like that one, too. Like, I did like that one. I know that for a fact, because that was such a.
Like, such a moral dilemma song, actually.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: I might take that back.
He reprises Stars, I think is in Act 1. Maybe I could be okay, because I think that's technically considered, like, his suicide song. Like, I think.
[00:44:08] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: I think it's literally called Shabir's Death or something like that. I think Act 1, it uses the same themes, musical themes, which is why I was thinking that. But yeah, I think he.
Because really, Stars is talking about how he's gonna find him no matter what.
I swear by the stars.
And then, I mean, Jean Valjean, my gosh, I'm blinking on this song.
[00:44:36] Speaker A: It's okay. It's okay.
We're not going to get them all, you know.
[00:44:41] Speaker B: But he goes up into his falsetto so delicately, so lightly and honestly, that is so hard to do when you're in a big space in a theater, even though it's not a massive theater, like, you still are trying to portray basically a whisper to a room of thousands.
And it was just. It was very, very well done.
[00:45:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. Is there any songs that you feel could have been skipped? Or do you feel like every song was necessary?
[00:45:19] Speaker B: I mean, probably.
[00:45:23] Speaker A: You'Re like, this is unfair.
[00:45:25] Speaker B: My thoughts on Cosette and Marius, say no more.
[00:45:31] Speaker A: I know it's on your side.
[00:45:34] Speaker B: Literally all of them just. I.
Yeah, I don't know what they bring. I mean, obviously we have to have ghosts in regards to. For him being this fatherly figure and that bond. But all of the love songs I'm like, okay, we got it. The first.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: The first time, 100%. Okay. And then you had also mentioned, I think, as we were leaving, that there were some songs that felt like they were changed. Do you remember which one that was? Or was there parts that were changed?
[00:46:03] Speaker B: Yes, and I did look it up, because I was like, am I going crazy? No, I am not. There was, I'm pretty sure, a full song.
And it was called. I think it was called Little People, and it was sung by Gavroche. It was a full song that he kind of leads and engages with those standing around.
And I don't. Maybe I. Maybe I blacked out last night. But he only sang, like, two stanzas maybe, of it.
And. And then we get another two upon his climbing the barricade, or three to match the gunshots. But I'm.
[00:46:56] Speaker A: I'm almost positive I was talking with somebody today who had seen it, and they said that the barricade scene was also changed because he's. They've. They've seen this multiple times. They acted in it before, and he's never hung back up the barricade before. Like, that part was added. And they were like, it's interesting that they divided the song and they put that back. They put that in there because they also said the same thing, that that song was changed, that it wasn't nearly as expansive, but then they also put part of it back in there just to have him die again. They're like, that's never been seen before. And they think that's, like, for emotional resonance. Specifically, they were mentioned for the drunk character who apparently was paired with Scott Roche the entire time and had that journey, but didn't really have any lines.
So I guess that's an interesting take, too, for somebody who's maybe lived that. The Les Mis experience a little more than I have.
[00:47:50] Speaker B: Yeah, I did pick up more on that relationship than I think I had previously.
I think in the movie. I do recall there being some type of. Maybe I thought they were brothers.
[00:48:02] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:48:04] Speaker B: But because that same character essentially, in their drinking song back in the. Before they get to the barricade, in regards to singing about the colors once again, I can't remember the title of the song, but he's. But he's essentially bringing up, like, that character specifically is bringing up kind of the. Not regrets, but the things that he's afraid of. And everyone else is kind of looking at him like, bro, how dare you kind of talk about death?
Like, aren't you devoted to the cause? And then Gavroche kind of takes him off and is comforting him.
[00:48:48] Speaker A: Red and Black. Is that the song you're talking about?
[00:48:50] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:48:52] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:48:52] Speaker B: But, yeah, it's an interesting dynamic. I also, again, maybe it's the movie. I have to go back and watch the movie because I'm truly trying to remember the barricade scene. I think in the movie, we see it from the other side of the barricade. I think we see the front of the barricade. And so I remember Gavroche running around getting the bullets, which we know that's what he's doing in the stage version as well. We just don't see him the whole time. Except for at the very end, obviously, when he stands at the very top. But that does seem familiar to me.
[00:49:27] Speaker A: So I was going to say that I know for a fact it was from the other side because it was in all the promotional materials. And I have it ingrained in my head because I kept saying, you see Eddie Redman's Eddie Redmayne's face. I knew that for a fact. I was like, eddie Redman's Redmayne's face. You see it as they're shooting.
And so when it was flipped in the stage production, I was like, oh, that's interesting, because I knew for a fact in the movie it was the other way around.
[00:49:50] Speaker B: Yeah. Which, of course, because with movies, you can flip as frequently as you want to with the stage, the staging did make sense to me, because, of course, you want to see what's happening behind there. But, yeah, that scene, though, also felt like it went very, very quickly. And I was like, wow, we're just. I mean, you know that there's death and you know that there's people dying, but it was just like, oh, yeah. Just literally within 35 seconds, 12 people are dead.
[00:50:24] Speaker A: It was very quick.
[00:50:25] Speaker B: Carted off very, very quickly as well.
[00:50:27] Speaker A: Before we run out of time, I kind of want to talk about the set and the design.
I have to say, one of the most impressive things about this show for me was how large the set was. For a touring show, some of these set pieces were three stories high.
Some. A lot of these pieces rolled in and rolled out. And they weren't just like, small pieces. They were like carts that were huge. They were.
They were. The barricade, which was, what, Also two stories high. It was like a huge barricade.
I think that. And then paired with the use of the screen, which I'm usually really against digital screens, but Les Mis did it really cool because, like, I'm thinking of like the sewer scene where like they're walking out of the back and as they're going, the tunnel's kind of moving and it gives you the fact that they're like walking out of a. Walking like far. It was just like such a cool effect between the set pieces and the set and the screen. I think that this is one of the coolest, appealing looking set designs that we've seen from a Broadway show at Broadway in Detroit.
[00:51:33] Speaker B: Yeah, I will agree. I think I have not seen a set like this. I think even when the show did come to Grand Rapids previously, it was a while ago and I think the set was different. I do not remember a three story buildings on the sides. I don't remember a screen. Once again, I could be crazy. But I did love that aspect as well because I wasn't sure what to expect. I wasn't sure. I love that the buildings came in tighter and drew apart multiple times and gave you the truly authentic feeling of how tight those streets really were.
And even though it was technically limited set pieces, I mean, they were using the same pieces for different portrayals, for different scenes, for different locations.
And yeah, I thought it was, it was very well done. And I'm also usually not a screen person, but I think I enjoyed. Like you said, we weren't just staring at a flat, at something that felt flat. They made it immersive. So that it was, it was being utilized truly as a set piece and not as a. As a canvas.
And everything felt intentional. Everything that they put up there, even when it was just kind of a. Kind of a mural esque painting is kind of what it looked like to me at least.
It just, it paired. It paired very well. Yeah.
[00:53:11] Speaker A: And like I, I was, I was shocked by like when the bridge lowered down and I was like, that's a full bridge. Like it was the spanning the entire. Or did it come in from the side? Whatever way it came in, it was like a full bridge. And like you said, when the pieces moved together, there was one time I was like, oh my God, those balconies are going to hit each other. And they didn't.
And there was like depending on how far they pulled it and stuff like that, you felt like you were either in a poor part of town or you were part of the rich part of town. And then they would pull in that simple gate for Jean Valjean's house. And it was like. It was simple. Like it should have been simple, but it was also the most intricate thing I've seen in a Broadway and Detroit show, which I was. I think I was very flabbergasted about it because it felt like this show had been around for a long time and they knew exactly what they were doing and how to do it. Where sometimes you're like. I always think of, like, Legally Blonde. I saw it, what, two years ago at the Fox, and it was literally like three set pieces moving in and out, flipping around, like there wasn't much to it. And this was like. I mean, there's so much to this show. There's so many pieces. I kept thinking in my head, like, how many trucks does it take to tour the show? Because, like, it has to take a lot of trucks for all of those pieces.
[00:54:21] Speaker B: I thought the same. I was like, just these buildings alone, they've got to have at least two trailers, two to three trailers, which is.
[00:54:28] Speaker A: It just stands. Like, the show also fills theaters. Like that.
[00:54:33] Speaker B: Our theater was packed, which honestly did surprise me in the best way, because we love to see a show that's been around do well, especially one that once again leans towards the quote unquote, old school, operatic musical theater world.
And it was, yeah, it was very well attended. And I like all of the songs and everything. It was. It was very well received.
[00:55:01] Speaker A: So, final question, same question as every podcast. Does this have rewatchability factor?
[00:55:08] Speaker B: I think for the reasons that I just mentioned, yes. I mean, the thing. The difference with the show is you do truly know exactly what you are going to get. And so it is, to me, it's almost more like I'm attending a concert than it is that I'm attending a theater production, because I know that I'm there to hear people sing these very complex emotive pieces. I'm not there to particularly analyze the costumes or the set or the choreography, because I know that those things, even though they're great, they are minimal compared to the singing.
So, I mean, yes, I would. I would go again for that reason. How about you?
[00:56:02] Speaker A: I think this is the first show that we're going to that we differentiate at.
No, I would not go see this show.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: Me.
[00:56:09] Speaker A: So this is, again, like I said earlier, I recognize that this is a great show. I recognize that people love this show. I can recognize from a technical standpoint that this is a show that is good. Is it? For me, no. Like, unfortunately, this is not a show that I would pay to go see again. I've never paid to see this show. Would I ever pay? Probably not. Oh, but like, the thing about it is, is I wanted to like it. I don't know, if I was trying too hard to like it.
[00:56:41] Speaker B: I mean, it. There are shows like that for everyone, though, right? Like, I've had shows where I'm like, meh, no Shrek thing being that show.
We know that you enjoyed that one. And so this is where. And it's the magic of theater, too, right? Like, as much as we can know that we both enjoy theater, musical theater, we can also have things that we're just like, you know what? That's literally.
[00:57:12] Speaker A: That's not for us.
[00:57:13] Speaker B: And that's cool.
[00:57:15] Speaker A: Absolutely. So, you know, this is one. If you go again, I will gladly listen to you talk about it when you get back.
[00:57:22] Speaker B: Correct.
[00:57:23] Speaker A: And this is also why we let you write the review. No, let's.
But we are running out of time, so thank you for listening to another episode of the Cosmic Curtain, the official podcast of Cosmic Circus Broadway. If you're interested in finding us outside of our box seats, don't forget to, like, follow and subscribe to us at BoxseedBabes or at MyCosmicCircus. So until our next keratin call, thank you so much.
