Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Thank you so much for joining me today. The Christmas Carol officially opened just before Thanksgiving. So how's the experience been so far?
[00:00:07] Speaker B: Well, thanks for having me, Brian.
The experience has been wonderful so far. It's been.
It's been a little different. You know, I've been. This is my 12th year doing the show, and so all the previous 11 years have been with Terry Carpenter as director, and I've worked on a number of other shows as Trap, with Travis as a director, but never with Travis on Christmas Carol. And so it was. It was refreshing. It was really cool. I think we added some. He added just minor tweaks of certain scenes and stuff like that. That was really fun to go through and explore.
And the cool thing about Travis is he just lets you play. He lets you play, and he has the final say, you know, okay. And so, you know, if he says no, then it's no. But you get to try things, you know, you get to. You get to play. So they're real cool about that up there. And it was just a wonderful experience with Travis and with the rest of the cast. The cast is great, I think, including the kids.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: I mean, it's a big cast, too. There's so many people on stage.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: It is. It is a. It is a pretty big cast and a lot to coordinate in three weeks time before you open and stuff like that. So.
[00:01:42] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't know how you guys do it in three weeks. That's, like, not enough time.
[00:01:47] Speaker B: It was, you know, it all seemed to work. It all seemed to work.
[00:01:55] Speaker A: With Travis taking over. What do you feel like? You said some of those things kind of changed. What was like the biggest change, having worked on it for so many years.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: For you as an actor, Conversations that. He would ask wonderful questions. He would ask wonderful questions. What about this moment? What's happening here and everything? And just get you thinking about, okay, yeah, at this moment, this is happening. He's discovering something here. He's working things out. He's finding an answer or whatever the answer is.
We're analyzing moments that wind up showing up in the ultimate fabric of the show.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: That's awesome. So, like a deeper exploration, a different exploration of these characters.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Right, right. You know, one of the things we talked about, he said, you know, he can't just be mean. Scrooge just can't be mean.
He's got to have a reason.
He's got. There's got to be what motivates that, that meanness. And so we talked about it. We talked about when you start to realize you Know that then you begin to shape the arc. Because the cool thing about Scrooge, and this is the thing that I love about it, and that's why I include it in a bucket list.
The bucket list roles to do the arc that he makes from being absolute crap weasel at the beginning of the show to whistling rainbows at the end, you know, just. Just being the full 180. The full 180 where you just go from bad energy to good energy. And the little steps that it takes to do that has been a great, A great challenge and wonderful journey.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: So speaking of Scrooge, this is your first year getting to play the role. What is that like stepping into such an iconic role? I mean, this is a role that everybody in that theater knows.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it is.
Ba humbug is an iconic line. You know, it's just, it's. It's a money line.
And so I got a good story about that money line for, for a minute. But I got to do. I stepped in for Tom, I think, for three shows last season.
[00:04:39] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: And I think I did it for one or two the season before.
So I had gotten a taste of it. I understood it all. 11 years, but honestly, I don't think it was until like the third year that I was out of book for the understudy rehearsal that they have. And, you know, it's. Because it gives you like one day each year. And so it took a while for me to digest the breadth of it, but, you know, it was. So I got a little taste of it last year and honestly it was a little hard to go back to what I was doing before.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:05:26] Speaker B: After a few runs at it last year, it was like, wow, this is so cool. This is so. This is so much fun.
You know, being a mean, nasty person is actually very enjoyable. There's something cathartic about it. You can work out all of your daily demons through the lines and get out all your pent up aggressions and everything, and then you make the 180 and by the end of the play, you know, you're. You're the life of the party. Can't wait to go and hear stories about your dog and stuff like that. You know, it's just like generous, giving total, total positive energy.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: I was going to say, having seen it last year for the first. I think it was my first time seeing it. I might have seen it a few years before. And then to this year, I was like, I don't remember Scrooge being so funny, like through the whole show. He has, like, this, like, dark humor, and then it kind of gets shifts towards that lighter humor. But I was like, I don't remember Scrooge being so funny. And I thought that was a fantastic take on the character.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Well, you know, that's. I think that's one of the redeeming things about it that you find out that he is fun to be with. He's not a total jerk.
[00:06:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: He's not going to yell you out of his office now. He's telling a joke. And it's. He's pretty good at it, you know.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: So with this being a show that's been around for, like, over four decades. I think they said 42 years, correct?
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Yeah. This is the 42nd year.
[00:07:07] Speaker A: Is there pressure to that, like, putting on a show that, like, people who were children who are now adults have probably come to scene every single year?
[00:07:14] Speaker B: I never felt it. I never felt it. Because here's the thing. After 42 years, you work up a schedule. You have everything tracked so that this actor that you hire will do this part, this part, this part, and this part, and then be Christmas Future. Right. And so they have tracks for all these different slots.
And it's all.
It all fits. It's like a good jigsaw puzzle. It all fits, and everybody does their track, and it all works out now.
So it's not year in and year out, it's something that's not too darn broken.
They've got it down to a science. They know how to do it, and they know that they've got the same adaptation that Charles Nolte wrote, and. And they stick to it, you know, and so they know what they're. They're putting out there.
Year by year, there's going to be some different hirings and everything so that we didn't get this person that we had last year for Christmas past or whatever, and so now we're going to use this person. So there's. There's new people to the cast. Sure. But that adds to the. The fun of it. Sure. And what we tried to do. Travis and I talked about it at the beginning of this, and we said, you know, it's always been a good production. And Travis said, yeah, and we just want to raise the bar on that a little bit.
[00:08:54] Speaker A: Every year, you got to make something more special.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: Right, right, right. And so the tweakings that he did, you know. Have you seen it before this past week? When? Did you see it this past weekend?
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Yeah, I saw it on Friday.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: On Friday. Okay.
Had you Seen it in previous years. Saw it last year at Meadowbrook.
[00:09:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:17] Speaker B: Okay. All right. So the scene in the second act where the four merchants are talking about the death of Scrooge.
[00:09:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:09:28] Speaker B: That used to be two merchants, Scrooge and two merchants standing in a line facing the audience. They had umbrellas, but, yes, they just stood there and said their lines. And it. It was a little stagnant. You know, it's. It just. It was like, okay, so here's five guys standing in line.
If you recreate these conversations as if they're happening on the sidewalks of London, then it becomes a bit more active.
[00:10:01] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: And so that was a little tweak that Travis thought was beneficial. And I totally agree with it because it's more interesting to watch.
And so little things like that. Little things like that, that I think help us raise the bar a little bit. And so now we, you know, we giggle. Now it's like, so, what are we going to do next year?
[00:10:36] Speaker A: That. That's. And I noticed that scene. That scene jumped out to me because I was like. It did feel different. I almost felt more bone chilling in a way of just like. Because he's sitting right there in the middle of all of them while they're having this conversation about him.
[00:10:48] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Well, the. Are you talking about the Old Joe scene? That's right after the merchants or the merchants themselves.
[00:10:56] Speaker A: The old Joe.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Sorry, the old Joe scene. Yeah.
Yeah.
I really do learn a lot in that scene. Why am I here? So apparently somebody's died and stuff like that. But when the undertaker comes out with that engagement ring, I sure recognize that, don't I?
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Yes, you do.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: So I know it's me. I know it's me. And then I see the bed curtains, and then. Yeah, I have an opinion on that. You people are awful.
[00:11:27] Speaker A: And I love the work that you do, like, because a lot of it is just, you know. One of the questions a little bit later, I was going to say about. Say it now, is that you have this interesting dynamic where you're, like, in all. You're in the whole show, but you don't interact with a lot of people. You're just kind of watching a lot of these things unfold and you're doing all the work right here.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: I noticed that during the second act of Sunday's show yesterday, after we had done, like, Friday night, two Saturday and two Sunday, I thought, oh, man, my back. I need to sit. When's that Old Joe scene coming up? I need to sit.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Yeah, you're on. You're on, from the moment you come on until the end, you're. You're there. I mean, the whole show is you.
[00:12:13] Speaker B: Right, right. And that's cool. You know, I'm from a family of nine. I'm the youngest of nine kids, and so I was born with an audience there, and so I'm comfortable with it.
It's fun. It's fun. I'll tell you when. When you wake up in the bed and you find that you're not destined to Marley's demise, it's pretty exhilarating. It's pretty exhilarating. And it's. It's emotional.
[00:12:49] Speaker A: I could imagine that. I mean, it's kind of. You know, I'm a therapist during my day job, and it's. It's. It's like. It's like a therapy session for Scrooge from beginning to end.
[00:12:58] Speaker B: Oh, dude. Totally, totally. I get to laugh and cry in every show, and so it's just. It's. It's. It's wonderful catharsis. It's wonderful therapy. I. When I get done with the show, I feel better than when I started the show. It's weird.
[00:13:16] Speaker A: I mean, that's great, though, you know, What a time to feel light, you know?
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:13:23] Speaker A: Is there anything specific you have to do to get into the mindset of Scrooge, like, before you go on stage?
[00:13:28] Speaker B: No, no, not really.
You know, I used to.
You know, I would watch Tom and see what he did before the show and everything, and I think about 10 of he would walk out onto the stage and go up into the bedroom and get ready for the show and do his preparations, his final preps and stuff like that.
I don't know. Maybe it's just easy for me to tap into my mean side.
I just, I.
I can turn it on without even trying.
I mean, make a statement about me. That might not be very complimentary, but.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: As I say, it just means you're a great actor. You know, you just don't need a lot of time to prepare. You just are ready.
[00:14:21] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:14:24] Speaker A: So the Christmas Carol has such an immersive set. It's probably one of the biggest I've seen at Meadowbrook. I've seen quite a few shows there now.
What's it like to act on something that is so intricate and immersive? I mean, does that make it easier? I would assume it does.
[00:14:37] Speaker B: Well, it does. I mean, visually, I think it's a great set. For what? For the show. Right. You got both side structures will unfold and storybook to create A setting of Fred's and the Cratchits.
[00:14:57] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: And then. And then you've got two areas. The bedroom and the office on one side of the middle structure, and then a street scene on the other side. Sure. Incredibly versatile.
There are some challenges in dealing with it.
You have to be able to walk upstairs in a robe in the dark while it's turning, to make it up in bed. To make it up in bed and be ready after the gravestone scene.
You know, you gotta be up there in bed waking up. And so that's tricky. I'm gonna have to start counting the number of stairs in that first flight before you turn and make the corner and go up four more stairs. But there's always one more step than I'm used to. I'm thinking, okay, I'm at the platform now. And no kick that. Kick that step. Almost fall over in the dark. And so it's a little tricky. And then once you get up on the platform, you have to gauge walking over to the bed as it's turning. And I can see the post. I can see the post. I can see my target. So it's not unsafe or anything. But by the same token, there's. There's no guardrail there, you know, so.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: You better make sure that's the bed post.
[00:16:32] Speaker A: So I was thinking a few times in a few of the scenes, like in the beginning, too, it's turning and you're walking. And I was like, man, if that was me, I would be falling over so quickly.
[00:16:42] Speaker B: Well, it hasn't. I've never felt unsafe. I certainly haven't felt unsafe. I would have. I would have said something if I had, but it's just machinations. But as far as the set go, I love the set and it's. It's wonderful to work with. Now, Sunday night, I think something was going on with the lights. And there were some lights happening that don't normally happen, but you know, that's. That's gonna happen from time to time. It's live theater. What are you gonna do?
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. You roll with the punches.
[00:17:15] Speaker B: Absolutely. Oh, speaking of which, that was pretty funny.
When was it? It was Saturday. Saturday matinee, I think it was. Okay, Marley's up there yakin with me, telling me to get scared and everything, and.
And the doors fly open, right? And the smoke billows in. And he says, oh, you hear those spirits out there? They're like me. They're all sad and everything and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, whoever the stagehand who pulls the cord, that Opens those doors, gave it too hard of a yank. And one of the French doors stayed open and would not go closed. It would not close.
So it kind of made me giggle when I'm talking. Now Marley's gone. I leave the. I try and close the door twice. It swings back open. And I'm thinking, I'm not doing this again.
That door is closed. In my mind, that door is closed. And so then when Christmas Pass comes in, like two minutes later, I'm telling her, oh, my bed is so warm. Even though I got the door open, the temperature is well below. Well below freezing. You know, so technical things are going to happen. They're just going to happen. But you kind of roll with it and have fun.
[00:18:48] Speaker A: As I say, it makes for a unique experience for everybody who attends it.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: It's the beauty of live theater, man. I mean, you're never going to get that in a film because it will wind up at the editing floor.
[00:18:59] Speaker A: 100%.
[00:19:01] Speaker B: I love it when things go wrong in theater.
[00:19:03] Speaker A: Do you?
[00:19:04] Speaker B: Because I just. Oh, yeah. As an audience member, I'm just like, oh, wow. How are they going to fix this?
[00:19:12] Speaker A: I'll say that before I became a. Like a, you know, a critic and stuff, I wasn't quite so aware of those things, but my partner, who's been in theater his entire life, was just like, oh, that was supposed to go off there. Or that was supposed to go off there. And I'm just like, really? Because I didn't even notice. So now you start to notice some things like that.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, right. Little. Little things.
[00:19:33] Speaker A: So how do you feel like this show compares to, like, other shows that Meadowbrook has put on recently? Like. Like the approach to. I know you mentioned that Travis is very collaborative. Is that. Do you feel like that's very common for Meadowbrook?
[00:19:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
[00:19:47] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, everyone understands what their role is in it. Right. And so we're there to do the experimentation, find out what works, and then. And then take the direction from the director. Director makes the final. The final a choice. And your job is to give him as many different choices as you can.
[00:20:14] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:20:15] Speaker B: That's. That's the way I see my job there. I try and give him as many different tax. As many different approaches, as many different possibilities, because that's. That's all acting is, is. Is a series of choices.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:20:31] Speaker B: And in each situation, you have a number of different possibilities of which what you're going to choose, how are you going to do this? And so the exploration of all those different possibilities that's your job. And then he's going to say, this is the one that works best.
Sometimes he'll tell you, here's why. Here's why it. Okay, you know, that's awesome.
An example was saying Merry Christmas out the door after I'm. After I realized that everything's gonna be okay.
[00:21:17] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: You know, after I wake up.
We. I tried a different number of different approaches on that door, but we, you know, and then finally the feedback came back that Travis said, what's. What I love is when you get the idea about it and we don't know what you're going to do for a little moment and then. And then you do it and you come back and you see the joy of what you just did. You know, the, how fascinatingly fun it was to wish someone a Merry Christmas and happy New Year out your door, you know, and so he says, that's what we. That's what I think we should go with. And I said, done. That's it. That's the choice, you know, I mean, you just try and make the best choice in each of those situations.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: I love, I love that. Especially that whole scene. Like there was one part where you're kind of teasing Cratchit and you're like, you turn around and you're like winking at everybody else. And I just thought that was like. I've never seen that. It reminded me, I don't mean this as a great compliment. It reminded me of Scrooge McDuck from the Disney one, because that's one of my favorite Christmas carols.
You had a little bit of that Scrooge McDuck, you know, in you when you did that, you're like, you're kind of winking and you're like holding your finger up to your lips. I was like, oh, that's such a great choice because you get to play in that moment. And I love that.
[00:22:43] Speaker B: Yes, yes. And that's an opportunity to show the audience how. How much he's changed, how much he doesn't care about money anymore. He likes to play games now. He really likes to play games and have a laugh with people and.
Yeah. That. I may have seen the Scrooge McDuck version when I was growing up, but I'm not sure. What I did see was Patrick Stewart do a one man version on Broadway in New York when I was living in New York. And it was the last performance of the run, and I think I got the last ticket.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: Oh, my goodness.
[00:23:28] Speaker B: Sat in the back row. And that performance made an Impression on me.
[00:23:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: And it was wild because about 15 years later, I was able to tell him how much of an impression that made on me at a gathering in Ann Arbor when the Royal Shakespeare Company was here touring, and he was with him. And so I got to say, yeah, I saw your One Man Christmas Carol, and it was outstanding. It was just outstanding. And so, yeah, that one really made an impression on me. And I think I've seen parts of the George C. Scott film, and then I think I've seen parts of the original 1935. Now, you know, the deal about the original 1935 film is that Tiny Tim was played by Terry Kilburn, who did not know that, later became the artistic director at Meadow.
[00:24:31] Speaker A: Whoa. That's really cool.
[00:24:33] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm not sure about this, but I think it was his partner, Charles Nolte, that he said, you gotta write Christmas Carol script. You gotta write an adaptation that Meadowbrook can do because it will be a great thing. And I think that's how it got started. Don't quote me on this.
Travis may have different information on this, but that's the impression that I'm under. I know that Terry Kilburn played Tiny tim in the 35 film.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: That's really cool, though. Like, what a cool piece of history.
[00:25:08] Speaker B: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: So there's a lot of themes in the show, but which one seems to resonate the most with you?
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Good overcomes evil.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: Okay, that's a great one.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Good overcomes positive. The way I've always seen life is that there's energy flowing around this little rock constantly. A big, huge flow of energy. And the energy is both negative and positive. I have always tried to live my life, to be a part of the positive energy part, because I realized that the negative energy exists. And so this is the victory of good energy over bad energy.
And maybe you need to recognize that each of us has both possibilities. What's that old Native American story where the young boy asks the tribe leader, his dad, he says, how are you? And he says, I have two wolves inside of me, one that is bad and one that is good. And they're constantly at battle. And the boy says, how do you know which one will win? And he says, the one that will win is the one that I feed.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: Oh, I love that.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: So I just try and be positive energy. And that's what. That's what makes the end of the show so fun. Because being mean is not in my wheelhouse. Being mean is just something that I can do as an actor.
[00:26:57] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: When I get to. When I get to. Oh, my gosh, Brian. The moment with Fred at the end of the play, it's like, it's the most meaningful aspect of all of those recoveries. You can give away money, you can give money to the charity men, you can tell Bob Cratchit that you're going to give him a raise and that you're going to hire his kid. But Fred's the only family he has. Right. And so, and Antonio and I have talked about this. We just hugged the hell out of each other at the end of that play because it's like we wanted this so badly.
And so it's, it's, it's, it's a really, it's a real fun part of the show to get to, you know, while you're standing there. Yeah. While you're standing there watching the 20 minute Cratchit dinner at the beginning of two, you think, pretty soon I'm going to be able to bust out and be good again.
[00:28:00] Speaker A: Is that scene 20 minutes? It doesn't feel like it's 20 minutes.
[00:28:05] Speaker B: But it is one of those examples where I'm just standing there watching, you know, and thank God they gave me the little trip around the table while Christmas Present is talking about, you know, it's not a particularly handsome family or anything, but the blocking is I'm supposed to go around there and I'm supposed to look at Tiny Tim and really study him up close.
[00:28:27] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:28:28] Speaker B: And I hate to do it because I don't like to move on someone else's line, you know, And David's up there talking and I love hearing him talk. He's got such a great voice and so. And he's saying these beautiful words and I hate to be moving. So I've been kind of like doing it more quickly the last couple of goes at it. I've been trying to get that blocking out quickly so that I'm back to him by the end of the speech so I can stand there and look at him and listen to him and not be moving when he's talking. I'm pretty self conscious about that one little moment. But it needs to happen. I've got to get close to Tiny Tim and that needs to take its effect with me before I can continue my recovery.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: I mean, that is a beautiful scene. So. But I can understand that you want to respect the, you know, the actor who's talking.
[00:29:26] Speaker B: Yeah. And Dave, I'll tell you what, this, this guy David, who's playing Christmas Present is so fun to work with because he's super available.
He gives you a lot of different reads. He'll get, you know, he'll give you different moments. He's not married to any one particular thing, but things that work, he recognizes things that work. And I was telling him the other day, I said, dude, I really. I really have fun with you at the top of two. This, It's a good. It's a good diversion from the pain of the end of the first act. Do you know what I mean? It's like I immediately, I immediately am not sobbing. I'm not a mess anymore. This is something totally different. It's a totally different moment, right, because.
[00:30:11] Speaker A: The ghost of Christmas Present is more jolly. You know, he's got energy.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: He has a totally different energy. He shows you what it can be to be joyous and to. And to appreciate and love things and not take things for granted or hate them. You know, all these different things that he describes at the top of two, look at all this. Look at all the lemons and oranges and all the people buying all these things. They're out there, just out there. Everybody's out there. Everyone has smiles, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he basks in it. And that tells me life can be like that. Life can be like that. But the cool thing about present and David really brings this out. He'll slam the door on you. If you're wrong about something, he will call you out on it too. And that's what I love about David's performance. It's just, it's. It's a crack up. It's. It's wonderful.
[00:31:09] Speaker A: Well, thank you so much for giving me your time today, Phil. I really appreciate it.
[00:31:13] Speaker B: Totally. Thanks for having me.
[00:31:16] Speaker A: Of course. So Meta Brooks A Christmas Carol runs from now until December 22nd. So there's plenty of time to see the show. So get your tickets before they sell out. Thank you again so much, Phil.
[00:31:25] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thank you, Brian.
