The Road to 'Wicked': Movie and Musical Discussion | The Cosmic Curtain

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Welcome back to the bright lights of Broadway. This is the Cosmic Curtain, the official podcast of the Cosmic Circus Broadway. I'm Brian Kitson, head writer over at the Cosmic Circus and Cosmic Circus Broadway. And joining me today, I have a new honoree. Box seat, babe. [00:00:17] Speaker B: It's an honor just to be nominated. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. [00:00:20] Speaker A: This is the Tonys, and you're just here. It's your world. We're just living in it. [00:00:25] Speaker B: I'd like to thank my parents. I'd like to thank you. I'd like to thank the regional cast of Wicked. [00:00:32] Speaker A: The people don't even know who you are yet, and you've already accepted the award. You gotta introduce yourself. [00:00:37] Speaker B: I'm jumping the gun. Hi, my name is Izzy. I'm a Broadway nerd, and I'm happy to be here. [00:00:43] Speaker A: I mean, Izzy, it's always great to talk to you. We just talked for an hour about Heartstopper and now we are. [00:00:49] Speaker B: You did. [00:00:50] Speaker A: We're bringing our story to the camera. [00:00:53] Speaker B: Exactly. We're making it happen. Listen, talking about Broadway after Heartstopper just feels like a natural extension of queer culture. So there we go. [00:01:01] Speaker A: I mean, let's be honest. If there was going to be a show that Heartstopper characters were going to talk about, it would be the show. [00:01:08] Speaker B: We'Re about to talk about, and it would be wicked. Best believe 100%. [00:01:13] Speaker A: So if you guys are wondering what we're going to be talking about, as Izzy just said, we're going to be talking about Wicked. Specifically, we're preparing for the movie that is coming. It's just around the corner. November 20th now, or 20 seconds. [00:01:27] Speaker B: Believe. So I can double check that. [00:01:28] Speaker A: But it's jumped around so much at this point. [00:01:31] Speaker B: It has. There was a lot of delays in production. [00:01:35] Speaker A: It's split into two parts, so only part one's coming out. They're not calling it part one, which is interesting, but we are going to be talking about the musical that it is. It has inspired a generation of theater nerds. [00:01:48] Speaker B: It is the 22nd. [00:01:50] Speaker A: Yes, perfect. [00:01:51] Speaker B: We got it. [00:01:52] Speaker A: And we are gonna have a podcast about that when it comes out. So we are very excited about that. But we want to prepare everybody, like, for those who haven't seen Wicked. First off, what are you doing? [00:02:00] Speaker B: What are you doing? It's find it and watch it. Please become a member of society. You're not a member of society until you've seen Wicked. [00:02:09] Speaker A: It too. It never stops touring, ever. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Literally never. I don't think there's ever been a Moment where I have breathed and Wicked has not been in performance somewhere accessible. [00:02:20] Speaker A: You know, I live in Michigan and I think that in Michigan there's no matter what, it's once a year, it's somewhere in Michigan playing. [00:02:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:02:28] Speaker A: Without fan. [00:02:28] Speaker B: Yeah. We can only hope. But like, and if not, you can see a terrible high school production. I'm so sure. [00:02:36] Speaker A: And I'm also not telling you what to do on YouTube, but there are slime tutorials and if you know that you are a theater nerd. [00:02:41] Speaker B: I'm not saying that that is how I originally discovered Wicked, through slime tutorials, but if it was, you're not a cop. So there you go. [00:02:50] Speaker A: And we're not telling you to do it. We're not telling you to do it. But it's also YouTube. [00:02:55] Speaker B: I've never endorsed anything in my life, but. [00:02:59] Speaker A: Yeah, you've never endorsed anything in your life. [00:03:02] Speaker B: I have no opinions, generally speaking. [00:03:05] Speaker A: I mean, that's never happened before. [00:03:07] Speaker B: It's never happened. [00:03:08] Speaker A: I don't even know who you are at this point. [00:03:10] Speaker B: No, and you shouldn't. [00:03:13] Speaker A: So at this point, there is a spoiler warning. If you have not seen Wicked in the past 20, 25 years. I'm sorry, we are going to spoil some stuff because we are going to talk about the original show and what we can expect from the movie coming up. [00:03:26] Speaker B: Yep. [00:03:27] Speaker A: Okay. So I'm going to give everybody a minute to just sign off if you are, you know, if you don't want to be spoiled. [00:03:35] Speaker B: Okay, let's drink our drinks. I got chai, so that's fun. [00:03:40] Speaker A: Perfect. Coffee. We're about to switch over to water in a second. [00:03:43] Speaker B: Got it. [00:03:43] Speaker A: All right, you had enough time? You had enough time. So, Izzy, we're going to start off with a very hard hitting question. A very hard hitting question. Because we need to understand your credentials to be speaking about Wicked. [00:03:55] Speaker B: Okay, hit me, hit me. [00:03:58] Speaker A: How young did you realize you were? No. And did it start with Wicked? [00:04:04] Speaker B: No. [00:04:05] Speaker A: Just kidding. When was the first time you've seen Wicked? Like, how long has this been in your life? [00:04:09] Speaker B: I saw a Sloan tutorial of Wicked when I was in the fifth grade. And it was because my friend wanted to do a duet with me. She wanted to sing for good. And I didn't have the heart to say that I'm an alto too, at best. And so we sang a terrible little duet together at several little talent shows. And I have just loved it ever since. And we found it, a recording of it, and we watched it and then I went and I saw it on tour much later, but it was great. [00:04:40] Speaker A: So who were you singing as? [00:04:43] Speaker B: She always wanted to be Elphaba, which was difficult because I am not a Glinda. I am not a Glinda. I mean, by chance and personality, but I'm a tenor at best. Like, it's just. It's not gonna work for you. So you know what? I would be Elphaba this time around. Would I be able to sing it? Likely, no. But that's what I would be. [00:05:03] Speaker A: I mean, anybody can sing it if they put enough heart into it. And that is karaoke. And karaoke is a thing. That's why they invented alcohol. [00:05:11] Speaker B: If you actually. If you have enough heart, you will physically transform into Stephanie J. Block, and you will just perform Dying Grab, Defying Gravity, hitting all the notes, and it'll be beautiful. That's a scientific fact. [00:05:23] Speaker A: I think at that point, you're actually right. It's just dying gravity. There's you just. I think I'm going into Die Gravity here. [00:05:32] Speaker B: Yeah. No, it's. I cannot hit those notes. [00:05:36] Speaker A: So for me, I will say this. I am probably one of the worst gay men in Michigan because I did not see it until college. [00:05:45] Speaker B: I'm shaking my head at you. [00:05:47] Speaker A: It was actually. So this is. As much as I love theater, I always grew up watching movies with my mom and my grandma. You know, like, the classic shows. But when I graduated from my bachelor's, my mom's just like, Wicked's touring. Do you want tickets for, like, for your present? And I was like, hell, yeah. I'd love to go see Wicked. And a gay boy was born that day. [00:06:11] Speaker B: And it was a beautiful ceremony. [00:06:13] Speaker A: It was. [00:06:14] Speaker B: Felt it. I was in a different state. We may not have known each other yet, but I felt it. [00:06:19] Speaker A: It's like. It's like, what is it? Every time a bell rings, an angel gets his wings. That was like, me. But when Alpha hit that high note, and I was like, wait a second. [00:06:25] Speaker B: I know. When she hits the Fiero, you know it's over. [00:06:30] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, there's no coming back. There's just. At that point, you're just like. You walk out, they give you a gay pin, and they say, have a nice day. [00:06:36] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:06:37] Speaker A: And you just. You're done. You're done. So one of the things about Wicked, obviously, that we're gonna have to. We're gonna go even farther back than just Wicked being, like, decades old, is that this is an adaptation of the wizard of Oz. [00:06:52] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's an adaptation of a book that was adapted from the wizard of Oz. [00:06:58] Speaker A: The pipeline to getting this on stage was incredible. [00:07:04] Speaker B: All I know is that I didn't read that book when I was little. My sister did. My parents quickly looked up what was in the book and then told me I was not allowed to read it. I have not read it since. I know it's slightly more explicit than the musical. [00:07:18] Speaker A: I forgot. So I read that. I read the book in college and I forgot how explicit it was until I saw a TikTok recently and they're like. They described the COVID the color of. And I was like, what? Did I read that book? [00:07:31] Speaker B: No, they get into it. What an interesting book. What an interesting book. That is not in the musical. [00:07:38] Speaker A: No. [00:07:39] Speaker B: Imagine if they had a. Imagine if it was. [00:07:41] Speaker A: But oh, we would. That would what a different. Have a rated R. That have a rated R rating right away. [00:07:48] Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. Especially coming from. I mean, there was like a wave, I think of. There's a time where I just kept seeing a bunch of really dark wizard of Oz adaptations. I think it's just a popular thing to do to take like a very, you know, like woo, yay story in whatever way, shape or sort form like a sort of like a fairy tale in a way and be like, and what if it was messed up? And every single time I go, oh my God, what if it was messed up? And I eat it up. [00:08:16] Speaker A: So there's something like. There's something beautiful about. I really like what if stories like take a tale that I know and just flip it on its head and let me see the dark underbelly. That is not so bad. [00:08:30] Speaker B: Right? I really like the ref. I mean, it's a classic reframing, but I like the whole. And what if the villain is the main character now and we see. Because she's such a caricature in the original, it's the Wicked Witch of the West. And so the fact that this is like. And what if actually that wizard sucks and what if she has a crazy relationship with Glinda and you see the backstory of how the Tin man became the Tin man and how everybody. How we all got here. And I, you know, I really appreciate that. [00:09:02] Speaker A: I think that you know, you know, jumping into the musical. So I've seen this multiple times. I saw it on tour multiple times. I've seen it in on Broadway multiple times. It does. It definitely shows you how nothing is ever is what it seems. You know, with specifically Elphaba, which is named after the author, which I always love. That's just a cute little fact. [00:09:26] Speaker B: I didn't know that. Oh, that's. That's a self insert character. I love that. [00:09:30] Speaker A: Yeah. So the author of wizard of Oz is wizard of Oz author. I can't. Is L. Frank Bomb. So Elphaba. [00:09:41] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's great. [00:09:45] Speaker A: It's just a cute little thing that they did. But Elphaba is this character who is quite hated at the beginning, but for a different reason. She's not the Wicked Witch of the West. She's hated because she's different. [00:09:58] Speaker B: She's green. [00:09:59] Speaker A: Yeah, she's green. And her father takes it out on her. People make fun of her. And like, so as we just talked about in Heartstopper, this. This is something that as a queer individual we can relate to very easily. Like being the outcast. Just because we're some. We're different. [00:10:13] Speaker B: Which I will also add a layer to that. I really like that they cast her as a woman of color in this version. Yes, that's another layer. I mean, not to just be like, she's green racism metaphor. But sometimes she's green racism metaphor. And also kind of a queer. A lot of metaphors. Just social outcast metaphor, you know? [00:10:30] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, so the original obviously is Idina. Mazel. Love her. Fantastic. [00:10:36] Speaker B: Love her, love her. [00:10:38] Speaker A: But for the film, giving it that extra layer of being a. Not just a woman of color, but I believe she's also queer as well. [00:10:46] Speaker B: I think so, yeah. Which I could be wrong about that, but I think so. [00:10:52] Speaker A: I think she. I'm gonna look it up right now. I'm pretty sure that she is. And it just adds that additional weight of being like, yeah, all of these things that people hate and you are this embodiment of it because your skin is green and you are different and like you have somebody. She identifies as queer and bisexual. So. [00:11:11] Speaker B: Woo. We gotta win, folks. [00:11:12] Speaker A: We love it. This is a challenger moment for us. [00:11:15] Speaker B: It is a challenger moment for us. [00:11:20] Speaker A: But, you know, so adding that. I love that layer. I love that. As soon as they announced her, I didn't even know what she had ever been in. And I was like, this is it. [00:11:27] Speaker B: This is gonna be the best. Her voice, you know, she's gonna eat those riffs. You know, we're about to see sound mixing the likes of which you've never seen before on TikTok. [00:11:39] Speaker A: I saw that wicked mic and I almost. The gay way of me is like, I need to go to Target right now. Like, I need that, like just to hear that riff over and over again. [00:11:47] Speaker B: I know what. It's crazy. Oh my God. And Then we have starring opposite to her, Ariana Grande, who, if you say anything about her, the girl can sing. I will say that. Yes, I will say that. And her latest SNL episode has proved to me that she can be funny. So we have that as well. [00:12:09] Speaker A: The thing I love about Ari in this role is that she has been campaigning to be Glinda for, like a decade. [00:12:19] Speaker B: Yeah, she wants to be. She had her roots in the theater kids, and she wants to return to the theater kids, and I respect that. [00:12:26] Speaker A: And, like, I think people forget that she can act. And I'm like, she. She's. She was an actress to begin with. [00:12:33] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I think that, I mean, I went through a phase of being like Ariana Grande. I don't know if she's gonna end. Then I went, no, Ariana Grande is gonna eat this. Ariana Grande is gonna eat this up. I do think so. I think that even just her vocal impressions, that she can do it alone. Like, her vocal cords are like Gumby. She's gonna find she's gonna do this. [00:12:53] Speaker A: Especially that transatlantic voice that you hear in the trailer. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:56] Speaker A: I was like, this is not the same person, is it? [00:12:59] Speaker B: It's like a specific. Is it transatlantic? I was trying to place it. [00:13:04] Speaker A: I think that she refers to it as a transatlantic. [00:13:06] Speaker B: Okay, nice. [00:13:07] Speaker A: But so like, specifically, like a 50s transatlantic. [00:13:10] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Because there's. There's different types of them. I have tried to learn several of them and have succeeded or failed at various times in my life. But I love that as a Glinda take. I think that that's really fun, especially because a transatlantic accent is a very put upon accent. It's one you have to, like, learn. Nobody's born with the transatlantic accent. So I like, like another, like, level of like, Glynda's, like, showmanship, you know? [00:13:34] Speaker A: Yes. And I think it definitely sets it aside from the original Glinda, which is Christian Chenoweth, who is like very high pitched, squeaky. Like, I am like, I'm a princess. And Ariana Grande is more like a. Like almost going back to like when the wizard of Oz, the film came out of the kind of that, like, yeah, I'm a princess of that time. [00:13:56] Speaker B: Exactly. I want to look up if that was a directorial choice or if that was a choice that she made. Either way, I think it's really smart because you're right. It's a callback to the original. And I also think it's really good because you're right. If you set yourself up against Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenowitz, and you try to do the exact same thing that they did. It's not, why am I going to watch this movie? You know, I think that part of the wonders of Broadway is that you get different adaptations and different casts that all bring something different to the characters. So the fact that you have these two people who are very much not Idina Menzel and Kristin Chenoweth, I think will work quite well. Hopefully, tentatively. Fingers crossed. We can only pray. [00:14:37] Speaker A: I mean, I think I. So I was very skeptical. I will say this. I was very skeptical when they announced the film. I had been kind of sort of waiting for it because, like, it's. It's a big story. It's. It's. It's. Yeah. And, like, granted, it could be grander in a movie because you don't have to be limited to, like, what you can do on a Broadway stage. But I was like, how is this story going to be in a film? [00:14:57] Speaker B: And also, I love a movie musical. Not all movie musicals are Chicago. Some of them are Dear Evan Hansen. And we all must live with this. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Like, yes. [00:15:10] Speaker B: You need to bring a certain level of artistry to it. It's not just. I don't know, it's not just a series of music videos. There's showmanship here, you know, which is why you and I were talking earlier. I'm interested in the fact that we have a lot of extra runtime happening here. And in 2017, they said there was going to be new songs, but in the official tracklist that you got, you said said no new music. So what are they filling that time with? [00:15:39] Speaker A: This is okay. So I'm so glad that you brought this up, because they released the tracklist, I think it was last week, and I'm pulling it up. They only had, like, 11 songs. Okay, there is 11 songs. And so we have no one mourns the wicked dear old Chiz the wizard and I what is this Feeling something bad Dancing through life Popular I'm not that girl One short day Sentimental man and then Defying gravity that's just the show. [00:16:11] Speaker B: That's the first act. Yeah, that's the first act. What do you add? Are they gonna do more world building? Are they gonna do more, like, fleshing out of character? I don't know. Because you could. You could do more world building. You could dive into, like, the lives of other people or, like, animals that are being forced to not speak anymore or something like that. You could have more examples of that. But I think the original story follows Elphaba's story so. So closely. [00:16:38] Speaker A: Yes. [00:16:39] Speaker B: That. I don't know. Maybe because it's a movie, they're gonna open up the perspective a bit. Or maybe it's just gonna be two hours of Elphaba character study. Who is to say? [00:16:48] Speaker A: I think so. Going back, I remember they announced the film. They announced it pretty far back. They kept announcing it. I feel like they kept, like, coming back to it. [00:16:58] Speaker B: It continued for a while. [00:17:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And then I remember specifically, they're like, okay, John Chu is going to be directing. And I was like, great choice. Love it. And then a little bit later, he, like, put out that post. He's like, the story's so big. It needs to be two parts. And I said, where are we getting this from? I was like, what? And I was like, okay. And then they're like, we're gonna add new music. And I was like, done. Great. Love that idea. [00:17:24] Speaker B: Yeah. But then they didn't. [00:17:27] Speaker A: So I'm wondering if there's going to be, like, a surprise second album which is all original songs. [00:17:33] Speaker B: That could be. It could be that they just don't want to tell you ahead of time what it is. They just released the tracks. They didn't release the soundtrack. Right. Like, just the track names. [00:17:42] Speaker A: Yes, just the track names. [00:17:43] Speaker B: Okay. Because part of me is like, but wouldn't you release the. Just the titles of your new music if you're not releasing all the tracks? I don't know. [00:17:54] Speaker A: I do. So they're not. It's not releasing until November 22nd, so I think there is room for them to add those other things in. [00:18:01] Speaker B: Okay. [00:18:02] Speaker A: But I wonder if they are worried of how people of the. That love the Broadway play are going to react to the new songs. [00:18:11] Speaker B: Yeah. It could be a marketing decision of just being like, no, come see it. Don't. Don't be scared. Yeah, it's fine. It's Wicked. You love Wicked. [00:18:20] Speaker A: Yeah. You've seen the show a thousand times. These are the. These are the songs that we're putting out. You love these songs. Like, you love them. I know. [00:18:27] Speaker B: Who doesn't love the Flying Gravity? Oh, my God. Which. [00:18:32] Speaker A: Okay. But I also have just a little bit of a worry because I heard that they end the film within the middle of a rift, and it's. The next film starts with the ending of her rift. [00:18:48] Speaker B: Depending on how that plays, that will be incredibly sleighful. Or I'll hate it. I will have to watch it and see. Because I will either go. I will either go direction, artistry, wonderful, or I'll Go like, why would you do that? [00:19:06] Speaker A: My thing is that, like, as that little gay boy, I'm gonna want to hit that last note that I cannot hit at. Not because it's a 22 note riff. I hear it's 22 notes. It's the longest it's ever been. [00:19:18] Speaker B: Oh, wow. Okay. Well, that's why they cast her, because she could do that. [00:19:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And then they're gonna, like. I think they ended at, like, note, like 17 or 18, from what I understand. Like, it's kind of what I heard. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Okay. If that's the case and you're building it up and it's gonna be this huge thing and then you cut it off, I may hate that. We'll have to watch it and see if that is how it works. Because if that's the case, I want it all together. I want. I understand what they would maybe be trying to do there to have, like the. Oh, wow, look, it's still the same musical. You're gonna have to wait this whole time to see the next part of it. Won't that be fun? And I'll be like, no, give me that riff right now. I need you built up to it. Give me the 22 notes as promised. [00:20:01] Speaker A: I would also love if they did it the way that they did it. It's the. And then, like, what the extra not at the end is after the Asians hit it. She hits a higher note. [00:20:12] Speaker B: Yeah, no, that. Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please. Oh, my God. [00:20:18] Speaker A: And like, you could have that in the next one. Starting that off. [00:20:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that would be. I would. I would like that. I think that that could work again. I think I'm gonna have to see it because I know. I don't think I will feel iffy about it. I'm either gonna love it or I'm gonna. And it depends. But I will say that does make me think, because that feels like a very directed. Like a very art directed choice to make, which makes me think that they're pro. That gives me hope that maybe they're being a little bit more purposeful in their art direction. And it's not just a series of music videos. [00:20:51] Speaker A: Yes. [00:20:52] Speaker B: You know, yes. Which I. Which no music movie, musical should be. It should be its own thing, so. Oh, okay. Maybe a good sign. Even if they're taking choices, I don't necessarily. Like, I always appreciate when people make choices. [00:21:07] Speaker A: And I think the way that the director was talking about it. I have to find this article. I will send it to you. But the way the director's Kind of talking about it is like, how do you get people to come back for Act 2? And he said, for him, it was always the. Everybody's always wanting the Defying Gravity Rift. How do you get them to come back to that second film? Will you finish the rift like you finished her Call to Oz? Like, how do you. How do you get them to. Like, that's how people come back. People are gonna come back because they want to hear the rest of that note. [00:21:38] Speaker B: I gotta think about that. Cause I can't tell if that's genius or if that feels kind of cheap to me. I need to figure that out. [00:21:45] Speaker A: I think what's also interesting, though, is that this is, like, the first modern musical that we had that's been developed into two parts. [00:21:52] Speaker B: Yes. The first time I heard it, I wasn't about it because it reminded me of, like, when they made Divergent into 17,000 movies. And it didn't have to be. It felt like a cash grab. But if it was from the director or the writer's perspective, as opposed to the studio's, I may be there for it more, because that may be. Oh, this is just the story I want to tell cannot be contained within one movie. [00:22:16] Speaker A: Yes. [00:22:17] Speaker B: As opposed to, this is a franchise. Let's make it a franchise. You know? [00:22:24] Speaker A: And yet. And obviously, they have tons of books that they could kind of go off of, but a lot of the books come after the Story of Wicked, so it's not like you can exactly put them in here. [00:22:32] Speaker B: Yeah, it's. I'm trying to think about exactly how you would do. Maybe you could do even just, like, you could remix things a little bit. Like, you could try to set up more for later books in these movies. I'm. God, I just don't know if anything. Every single fact that I learned about this movie makes me tentatively more interested and more nervous at the same time. You know, where I'm like, oh, we're making some bold. I feel like an actor in an acting class was like, and I love your bold choices. Are we rocking with the bold choices? [00:23:11] Speaker A: I think that one of the things that people have to remind themselves of, and I have to do it myself. Especially when I go into, you know, having. Going to see a lot of these Broadway shows now and getting to review them, and you're seeing. You're seeing choices being made, and you have to remind yourself that it's. It's not. Whatever you have in your head, it's like, yes, it's not Wicked on Broadway. This is Wicked, the film there's going to be choices made, including, I've heard people complain that Ariana Grande's Glinda dress is pink. Whether it's. That's a callback to the wizard of Oz movie. It's not blue. [00:23:41] Speaker B: Which, actually, I like that. I like that it's an homage, you know, I like that we're drawing from the original movie. Because if you're a movie, you have a cinematic tradition now that you're drawing from, from which I'm actually. I may rewatch the original movie before I see this version, like, the movie version of Wicked, because I wonder how much they're actually going to reference or draw not just from the musical itself, but from that movie. How many, like, even just visual references like that they're gonna bring up. Because if I was a director, that's what I would do, you know? [00:24:15] Speaker A: Right. Because you ha. We have so much history of. I mean, wizard of Oz in the Land of Oz has such a, like, rich history of so many different takes and so many different. This is just one famous one that people know now, but, like, let's call back, like, to the slippers being silver instead of red if we really wanted to. There's these stories. There's all of this rich history that we can tell while also telling Wicked. [00:24:44] Speaker B: I think that. That. I think it could be really good. I will say that again tentatively. There is so much potential here. I just get so nervous. And then, you know, you open Twitter and it's just people who are talking about, like, well, I don't like the color grading. And I'm like, okay, maybe it could be slightly more colorful of a movie, but can they sing? And is the script good? Is most of what I am concerned about. But I agree. I wish it was slightly more colorful because you're drawing from the tradition of, like, one of the first huge, colorful movies ever. But I digress. I digress on that point. It's just. It's Wicked and it's the wizard of Oz, and these are these staples of culture, like a staple of Broadway, a staple of the cinematic tradition. And now you're taking Broadway back to the cinematic tradition. I feel like it will either att. One thing I like is that it sounds like they're gonna try to make it this huge. They're going for it. [00:25:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:25:44] Speaker B: And I'm. I like that. I would rather you go for it and you try to make it this huge, innovative thing than just be like, it's a movie. It's Wicked. You like Wicked. [00:25:54] Speaker A: So I would agree with That I feel like they're making this an event. Like, do you remember growing up and you would go to the theaters, like, November, December, like, for Thanksgiving with your family, or like Christmas with your family? And it was like the big movie of, like, it was like a Harry Potter movie. It was like Lord of the Rings. It was a Disney animated film that, like, was an event. [00:26:17] Speaker B: They're putting this out, like, Thanksgiving week, you know. Yeah, they're. They're going for it. They're gunning for it. And I. Well, I'll have to see because I have to be on a family trip that week. [00:26:29] Speaker A: But you're like, no, sorry, guys. [00:26:34] Speaker B: I'm sorry. I must see Wicked. Elphaba must come to me. This is what has to be. But they're trying to make it like a blockbuster, you know, very clearly. And the issue with that is that musicals have been very hard to sell in a movie for a lot of the public. So part of me is thinking, that's osel. That's why Ariana Grande is here. They're drawing in star power. You know, they're like, everybody. You like Ariana Grande. You know, Ariana Grande, regular non Broadway people come see Ariana Grande. And so I'm really wondering about how many people are going to turn out to this movie and if it's going to be, like, as big as they want it to be. I hope so. If it's good. [00:27:18] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that, like, you're 100% correct. Musicals are such a hard sell. In fact, I'm trying to think of, like, the last time a musical really sold well. There's like, I keep going back to Dear Evan Henson. And I know that's not the last one, but, like, that one was just. [00:27:35] Speaker B: I keep going back to Chicago, which if there's got to be. You have what's been one since Chicago. There has to be. [00:27:43] Speaker A: There has to. Like, I can't even think of it, like, story. But that didn't do well. Like, no, there's been a lot of attempts and they're. They're not. But this one, I've noticed that the way that they're approaching it is they're having the two stars out there very early promoting this with, like, the, like, crazy amounts of just, like, star power. [00:28:10] Speaker B: Exactly. I have seen even. What's interesting is that this movie has kind of been in the cultural conversation for a while. Even if it's just a drama thing, even if it's just Ariana Grande and the guy who played spongebob are now together thing. I'm wondering how much drama like that is also gonna make people possibly come to see it. Because it's been a topic of conversation for a while, even Amongst the normies. 100%, you know, and part of me also always wonders when something like that happens. I'm like, is this a press move? Is this for Wicked? I don't think it's just for Wicked, but is it just for Wicked? [00:28:48] Speaker A: But what's crazy is that, like, last December, I was in New York to review some plays and I saw Spamalot and Eth Slater was in that film and in that show, and people were talking about it then of just being like, yeah, he left his wife for Ariana Grande. [00:29:03] Speaker B: He left movie Wicked for Ariana Grande because of that movie Wicked, you know, so who's just. I guess all press is good press. Per chance, maybe this is. I don't know. I'm interested because I do know some people who are going to see it specifically because of that. But I have also noticed that seems like the impulse from, at the very least, the FYP page of Twitter is to dog on this movie. It's a lot of people who are like, I don't like the color grading. Why is Ariana Grande here? What is going on? Why is it so long? Why is it two parts? What are we? And I'm. The people of Twitter like to hate on anything all the time. I don't necessarily take that as the end all. Be all of how good a piece of media will be, because they call plenty of stuff trash before it's really good. But I wonder if that's gonna affect how many people actually watch it. I wonder if it's gonna come out and it's gonna be a masterpiece, and then everyone on Twitter is gonna be like, actually, I changed my mind. And I never thought that in the first place. Or if it's gonna get a lot of hatred. I don't. No, I feel like a pop culture anthropologist here. I'm just scrolling through timelines and being like. And now the public reacts in this way. [00:30:18] Speaker A: But it's true, though. Like, they are like. It's very polarizing. And again, I feel like when you take something that is so beloved, you always run that risk of you could polarize. Like, it could be polarizing good or polarizing bad. But it's going to polarize a lot of people. [00:30:33] Speaker B: Yes, definitely. And I think, especially if they're making moves like, I did not know they were going to cut it off in the middle of a rift. If they do, do that that's going to be polarizing. I can already tell that there's going to be video essays about how some people find it genius and some people find it unnecessary. And I'm actually okay with that. I would always rather something leans more towards especially like a big block, something that's trying to be a blockbuster. I would always rather it leans more towards making cool artistic choices that maybe don't always work for everybody or don't always even work for me versus just like a studio garbled out production. And I kind of was thinking it was gonna be more of the second one for a bit, but it sounds like maybe. Maybe we could have an artistic vision. Maybe we could have an artistic vision. Maybe. Again, my faith in Ariana Grande is renewed. I love Cynthia. I feel like. I feel like we could. I am tentatively hopeful if only I figure out what they're gonna. Filled two hours. [00:31:43] Speaker A: You know, I think that when you speak of like the vision, like, I just want to step. Take a moment for John M. Chu, who gave me one of my favorite book adaptations of a film, which is Crazy Rich Asians, which I think was changed. Like when I look at that film, I think, like, that changed a lot of narratives about like the type of story you could tell and like what the public was gonna accept for the stories that were being told is what I should say. [00:32:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:14] Speaker A: But he also gave us in the Heights, which again, I forgot about that came out during COVID I still haven't. [00:32:20] Speaker B: Seen that one, to be honest. I've seen clips of it, but it's fantastic. [00:32:24] Speaker A: It's really good. [00:32:25] Speaker B: The clips of it looked really good in that case. Hmm. I'm trying to think. Well, also, you're right. It could be a. What if we do mess with the plot of Wicked? What if we do change it up a little bit? What would you explore there, do you think? I mean, you can't get. I'm trying to think, like, unless you really open up the world of perspective and you stop following Elphaba quite so closely and you really maybe do multiple protagonists or something. You could do something there. I don't imagine they're going to really get into the wizard because this is Act One. [00:33:03] Speaker A: Yes. [00:33:04] Speaker B: I don't imagine we're going to be seeing any secret hidden scenes of the wizard yet. [00:33:12] Speaker A: So there is. So there is one specific thing that I think that they're going to expand on for because of the topic, but also because of a recent poster that came out. [00:33:23] Speaker B: Please. [00:33:24] Speaker A: So there is a. There's a new poster they were like character posters. And on the new poster with Jonathan Bailey, which we've already discussed earlier today. [00:33:32] Speaker B: I love Jonathan Bailey. [00:33:34] Speaker A: Love Jonathan Bailey. That man can sell movies. I'm lining up just to see him as Fiyero. [00:33:40] Speaker B: Nuff him as Fiero. Stop. Oh, my God. [00:33:45] Speaker A: But also, they have. These are not. They're supposed to be in, like, high school, college, like, entering into college. [00:33:53] Speaker B: I always. It's college, right? [00:33:55] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:56] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah, yeah. [00:33:57] Speaker A: Like, you're like, so, like, you're 18, 19, and he's like, almost 40. [00:34:00] Speaker B: They do not look 18, 19. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief on that one. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Yeah. For Jonathan Bailey. I will do anything for that man. [00:34:08] Speaker B: Also, because in musicals, I would rather a person with a developed voice, you know, than like a teenager who maybe doesn't know exactly what they're doing yet. [00:34:19] Speaker A: You mean you don't want Ben Platt to play every role in Wicked? [00:34:22] Speaker B: No, actually I do want a specific cut of Wicked. That's just Ben Platt. Well, the issue I had with the Dear Evan Hansen movie is that he did not look young, but other actors did. [00:34:34] Speaker A: Yes, yes. [00:34:36] Speaker B: So in this, everyone kind of looks the same. I'm rocking with it. [00:34:40] Speaker A: You know, I absolutely, absolutely agree. But so going back to the poster. [00:34:47] Speaker B: Yes, sorry. [00:34:48] Speaker A: So at the forefront of this poster, so Jonathan Bailey, he set back a little bit, and the cub, the lion cub is up front. [00:34:58] Speaker B: Okay. This is what I mean. We could be getting more into the animals. I think that's what it has to be. Yes. [00:35:04] Speaker A: And you think about it that that's one of the most interesting stories I think people will. Could pick up on a minority group who are being oppressed. [00:35:12] Speaker B: Yes. I mean, it's a quite literal. It's a very literal take on oppression. It is very much like, you can't speak anymore. Your voice is being taken away. It's dehumanization to the highest degree, you know, a hundred percent. [00:35:25] Speaker A: And this is something that, like the show just for Time wise, doesn't get into nearly as much, but the book gets into it a little bit more. [00:35:32] Speaker B: Okay, then it has to be that. That's got to be what fills up everything, especially if it's in the book more. Because. Yeah, I think that that could be something that, if done well, could be really relevant and very interesting. And also, if you are casting a queer woman of color as your main character, who part of. I mean, it's kind of a story of intersectionality in a lot of ways. This is a woman who has been discriminated against as a minority for her whole life, even though she is perhaps the one member of her minority, she is the only green person. Um, but, you know, she has that. Um. And then she can connect to the struggles of other people because she kind of can identify a little bit with what it means to be an outcast of society. Um, if you have. If you lean more into that, especially casting a queer woman of color and exploring what it means to be a minority who has been dehumanized and taking your voice away, you could do something really interesting and really moving if you are allowing enough time for it. And it sounds like they are. Again, one thing that dear Evan Hansen, I think didn't do quite well is they cut stuff. They cut the song, like, good for you, I'm pretty sure. Which is important because it's everybody shouting at him, how horrible of a person he's been, and how deeply it's affected them all. And then if you cut straight from that to him being like. And I'm sorry, Doesn't work, because you don't. [00:36:55] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:56] Speaker B: You know, they're not cutting anything with this. They are fleshing it out tentatively. I think that that could be a. Could work very, very well. [00:37:07] Speaker A: Absolutely. Because I think that there's certain points that you almost. You need that. Because, like, again, she's very passionate about the. About the animals losing their voices. And you understand why, because she. It's kind of like that poem. I always think of this poem. I think I brought up, like, four times this week. But it's like when. Like when the Nazis came for the Jewish people, I was quiet because I wasn't Jewish. And then they came for, you know, the queer people, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't queer. And, like, it's one of those things of, like, she's sitting here going, I'm kind of the next one on that list. [00:37:36] Speaker B: Yes. But the thing that I love about it is that she gets to have the moment of being like, oh, but maybe I could sell my soul to this. Maybe I get the acceptance, and it is at the cost of all of my beliefs. And then she chooses to instead become a total outcast from society. And, you know, I mean, one of the most moving things I think about Wicked is the line that's always affected me the most is one question in no good deeds. One question haunts and Hertz too much to mention. Was I truly seeking good or was I just seeking attention? You know, the idea that. I think that's so important, the idea of, are you trying to be a good person or do you just want people to like you? And oftentimes being a good person means you are actively punished by society, not that you are praised for it. And I think that they could do so much interesting stuff if they explore and they really dig more into the meat of what does it mean to have an opportunity to be beloved despite the fact that you are a minority, but at the expense of basically every other member of your community. [00:38:43] Speaker A: Yes. And I think that in our society, we do that so often now where we think that, like, especially with social media being like, do I just want to be accepted? And like, especially as I'm sure you've experienced, as a queer individual and as me as a queer individual, like, sometimes it's just like, if I shut my mouth here, I could be accepted. Or do I have to stand up for the people who are being downtrodden on? And. And it's very. It's almost lonely to be the person to be like, I gotta stand up for this, because if I don't, nobody else will. [00:39:14] Speaker B: Yeah. And then I think if you take that character, you take that journey and you offset it by Ariana Grande's Glinda Galinda. I think that that could be really interesting because she's doing the classic transatlanticism. She's a pop star. She is just from our audience perspective, she is a person, very established society with a lot of notoriety, who is quite literally, quote unquote, popular, you know? [00:39:43] Speaker A: Yes. [00:39:45] Speaker B: So I think that it could be really interesting to. Yeah. I mean, honestly, now that I think about it, I'm actually happy that this movie is longer. You've sold me on it. Throughout the course of this conversation, the last 39 minutes, I've come full around. I was tentative at first, and now I think that maybe this movie could slay. [00:40:07] Speaker A: I think that also something that they could expand on. I think that almost needs to be expand on is the relationship between Glinda and Elphaba. Because, like, yes, please. It does. [00:40:16] Speaker B: Please, please. [00:40:18] Speaker A: It moves so quickly in the play. [00:40:20] Speaker B: In the musical, which it kind of has to, because it does. That's how it goes. The way that relationships and musicals work is you're in a scene together and then you stop and you share a beautiful duet and now you're in love, because 100%, you know, and I love that a lot of the times. Right. Because it's just you feel something so much, you have to stop and sing about it. And that's also how we keep the pacing going. I would love to see more of a Shift from. First of all, I'm so excited for. What is this feeling? I'm so excited for how they're gonna play that. But that. To the scene where, you know, I mean that. To essentially, to popular and to the scene where she tricks Elphaba. To going in the ugly witch's hat and then she goes, actually, I'm going to make this stylish. I feel really bad, and I'm going to fix this. I think that you could do a lot of interesting things if you take your time with Glinda unlearning her own prejudices, you know, and really digging into that. And also, popular better be a scene. Popular better be a sequence. [00:41:28] Speaker A: I mean, did you see the high kick she does in the trailer? And I was like, girl, you're. You're gonna break yourself. And they said, no, she actually did that. That's not CGI at all. [00:41:38] Speaker B: Oh, God. Which it has to be that every day. Honestly, I do. Ariana Grande can sing, she can dance, she can act, she can do impressions. Maybe. Honestly, maybe I don't think I would by Glinda if it was anybody but Ariana Grande in this movie. Perhaps. [00:41:55] Speaker A: I think this is going to be like, you know, when we talked about challengers and you were just like, am I bisexual? Kind of. I feel like I'm going to have that moment with Glinda. I'd be like, wait a second. With both of them, actually. Yeah. [00:42:06] Speaker B: Oh. Oh, my God. What's happening? From what I've heard about the book that's also kind of a bicycle, I've heard that every writer. Every book that the writer of Wicked has. Has ever written, every character's kind of bi, like a little bit. So 100%. [00:42:24] Speaker A: I mean, you don't see, like, let's be honest, you don't sing Defying Gravity if you're not just a little bit bi for like. Like those two characters. [00:42:32] Speaker B: Not just a little bit by. I. Yeah. So everyone always says that Wicked is about a female friendship. And it is, it is, but it's also 100. But there's also elements of stuff in there. There's some. Yes, there's some elements that would. Perhaps the movie could dig into that a little bit more. Especially if you are casting a queer woman as Elphaba, you know? [00:42:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:55] Speaker B: You could get. You could. Let's do challengers. Let's make this love triangle triangular. [00:43:01] Speaker A: I think that's. I think that's one of the things about the musical. As much as I love the musical, I always think, like, I Almost don't buy Alphabet and Fiero because I'm so focused on the fact that the love between the Elphaba and Galinda is what feels more realistic. [00:43:15] Speaker B: I know. And here's the thing. I love the song. Like I love as Long as yous Mind. I think that it's super romantic. I love. I know we should not judge an Elphaba by how good their riff on the Fiero and no Good Deeds is, but I do judge an Elphaba by how good their riff on Fiero is. No good deeds. You know, it's such a clear motive for her character. But I've always found the interesting part is how the. How that relationship contextualizes these two women comparing themselves to each other and both finding themselves falling short. You know, that's the most interesting part in every love triangle is the comparison between the rivals and the relationship between the rivals, which is why I love Challengers. Still need to watch it, please. But you don't have to like it. If you don't like it, you don't like it, and that's fine, and I forgive you. But I just really enjoy that context and framework for it. So they do have an opportunity to either or both lean into an Elphaba and Glinda relationship and be like, no, the centerpiece of this really is about these two women. Or finally, make me feel less than just musically invested in Elphaba and Fiero. [00:44:31] Speaker A: Yes. You know, Elphaba and Fiero, I should say this fear was literally just like in the musical. Can be very much just like that. The faceless love interest for both of them. Like, there is enough there. But I like when you open the show and Golida comes down in her bubble and there's this moment where they're like, was she bad? And she. You just see her heart break. Oh, God, you know what I mean? You don't know that moment. You see it and you're just like, this isn't just a friendship. Like, I've had friendships and they've done stupid stuff. And I'm like, yeah, they're a fucking idiot. You know what I mean? [00:45:06] Speaker B: I will say I think that friendships can break your heart, but also they can. [00:45:10] Speaker A: Yes. [00:45:11] Speaker B: That relationship is the key. It's the through line of the musical. It's about the two of them. It's about Elphaba's journey, but it's about the two of them as foils. I mean, even just what I think, every Gulinda that I've ever liked has always made this choice of and goodness knows the Wicked slides and lonely and goodness knows. And they sound so heart wrenched when they say the Wicked die Alone. The only acting choice to make, you have to do that when you sing the Wicked Die Alone, you know? And it's just. That's the key. And the core of it for me is these two women learning to understand each other and also mourning each other and just being on opposite sides of history and struggling with that. And Fiero was there as well. He's very pretty. And Jonathan Bailey, I'm sure, will make me very attached to him, but I will. I think I will forever be far more invested in that relationship than anything with Fiero. But this movie has a chance to prove me wrong or lean further into my interpretation. [00:46:16] Speaker A: So if I was writing the part two, first off, there's two changes I would make. I actually woke up from a dream once, and I text my Broadway friend and I wrote him, and I said, there is a reality where they should write A Defying Gravity Part 2. And it should actually be about how she broke the chains and, like. And how she is finally free. She's not just trying to be free. She is free. And, like, that should be the big moment. I had a dream. I had it all, like, written out. I was like, I'm gonna send this to them. But, like, they already filmed the film. I was like, I'm gonna send this to them. They're gonna be. [00:46:47] Speaker B: No, they're gonna reshoot it. They're gonna do it in your image. [00:46:52] Speaker A: But I think that that part two should end honestly with. Not with, like, Fiero can be there. Love him. He can be there. But it should honestly be as they're running away, Glinda standing there, and it's the two of them kind of embracing one last time. [00:47:08] Speaker B: They could. Yeah. [00:47:09] Speaker A: Oh, that's what they should do. [00:47:11] Speaker B: That's what they should do. It has to be centered on the two of them. I really do. I would appreciate an attempt to flesh out Fiera more, but if it takes away focus from Galinda and Elphaba's relationship, I'll be like, no, I don't think so, because that's the through line. But also, you bring up a good point. What if they don't add new songs to part one, but they could always add new songs to part two, you know, as a way to, like, ease people into it. [00:47:37] Speaker A: And I think that they almost have to, in the aspect of. At least in my opinion. And the people I've talked to, they. They like to validate me. No, I'M just. Act One has a lot more recognizable and stronger songs, in my opinion, than Act 2. Yeah, you need something that's going. Like when you have popular. What is this feeling? Dancing through life and then you end on Defying Gravity. Where do you go in Act 2? [00:48:08] Speaker B: And honestly, I think that any new song would be totally. It wouldn't work in the face of all that. Honestly, maybe I could change my mind, but I'm not gonna go out of that and go. And you know what made this whole musical better? This new song that they added. It would just drown in the face of everything else. Yes, but act two, you definitely could. [00:48:31] Speaker A: There's lot more space in there. [00:48:32] Speaker B: There's a lot more space in there, but we won't really be able to see until that movie comes out. And I imagine that would be quite some time until we get that one. But, yeah, next. [00:48:43] Speaker A: Next year. [00:48:44] Speaker B: Next year. Oh, I did not know that. [00:48:46] Speaker A: One year apart from each other. [00:48:48] Speaker B: Did they already film it? [00:48:50] Speaker A: Yep, they filmed it back to back. [00:48:52] Speaker B: Okay. [00:48:53] Speaker A: They filmed it all as one. And then they're. I think it was actually one of the things that's like. As they were, like, starting to film and they were writing the story, they're like, there's not enough time to tell the story you want to do. I mean, this film is like 2 hour and 40 minutes for act one, basically. [00:49:07] Speaker B: And. Oh, my God. Yeah, it's. We better get some Elphaba and Galinda something. But actually, no, I think that centering it again, that always has to be the cornerstone. But focusing on the animals more, fleshing out some characters more. I've always wanted more from Nessa. [00:49:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:49:31] Speaker B: You know, I think that if you don't have to do musical timing, you do film timing. Yeah. No, I've come full circle around this. You've sold me. [00:49:41] Speaker A: Especially when you look at. You know, I think that they're doing something fantastic. That this is actually the first actor who has played Nessa that actually uses a wheelchair, which is great. [00:49:54] Speaker B: Broadway's terrible about that. [00:49:56] Speaker A: Broadway is. We need. We need better representation. So give a bigger part to put a better light on this incredible actor. But, like, also of, like, Nessa's important and she becomes almost a side character. Like, there's. There's scenes in the book where it's Nessa and Glinda and they're just kind of talking, like, after she. Elphaba kind of flies away. And they're having these, like, moments almost of like. Of like a. Like a Game of Thrones talking. And they're like playing like playing chess with it. And you get to see like Glinda's more of a. Is a lot smarter than people give her credit for. But Ness is just as smart and almost the wicked one, you know. [00:50:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Which I again, I have always wanted more of Nessa. I think that they tease enough of her character in the musical for me to be like, ooh, she's interesting. What's up with her? But not enough for me to get answers to that. [00:50:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:52] Speaker B: You know, and so what they could do actually is on another level, flesh out the relationship between Elphaba and Nessa a lot more and maybe flesh out their home life a lot more. Because you know Elzaba, that whole thing is that, I mean, even in what is this feeling? The lyrics are that she's like writing to her father about how she's struggling and she's like, but of course I'll care for Nessa because I know that's how you'd want me to respond. You know, her relationship exists around caring for her sister. You could really dig into that and explore what that means. And especially you're right, you could set up Nessa as a more interesting foil for Glinda in a lot of ways. Which I would personally love to see. [00:51:37] Speaker A: And not just even like so for Glinda absolutely too. But I think that you almost need to flesh out Nessa and Bachelor Slater's character because in the again musical time wise you just kind of see her kind of be very obsessive about it. But I think that there's playing with the foil of Glinda and how she uses book to do it and how that plays into it and then it leads to how you get to that tin Man. Like I feel like there's a better. There's like a more story we could put in there. [00:52:11] Speaker B: Yeah, you're right. I man, I love that that's how we get the tin man. You know, I think that that's such a. Because you're right. That's such like a wicked thing to do. The idea of trying to get somebody to love you so you shrink their heart, like act by accident. That is such an under talked about moment. I think in Wicked of you're right. Like this also like this parallel to Elphaba who does almost everything she does out of love for the people around her. Because she could totally choose to be selfish and to be with the wizard and to choose to be viewed as wonderful. And instead because she loves so much, she decides to not do that and to Have Nessa, who's supposed to be the good one, have this moment of just completely disregarding what another person wants solely because she wants to have somebody. Yeah. No. The more I think about it, the more I side with the writer. You need more time for the story. [00:53:14] Speaker A: There's too much story because there's so many stories. It's like, granted, I know, like you said, the connective tissue is glinda and Alphabet. It is. It's totally their story. But there's so much. It's such a bigger world. I would have honestly been okay with a third part if they could justify it. Like, if you could tell me why you need a third part. Yeah, do it. [00:53:35] Speaker B: This is true. I like it this way, though, because intermission, and then. Yeah, let's get the next one. And also, again, I am just interested if they're going to open up the perspective, are we going to be. Because it's a movie, we don't have to be following Elphaba every scene or even just, like, small cutaway scenes for other people. We could maybe be following multiple people at once. So who's to say? [00:53:57] Speaker A: And from what I understand, we are going to be following Dorothy a little bit. Like, I think that that is a story they're playing up a little bit. [00:54:03] Speaker B: Yes, yes, yes. Please, please, please, please put Dorothy in there. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm thrilled. The more I think about it, the more I realize that I'm fascinated by every single female character in this story. And all the men are kind of, like, there for me. [00:54:16] Speaker A: Yeah, no, absolutely. I am interested to see how they're going to do the wonderful the wizard, because they put in Jeff Goldblum that everybody loves Jeff Goldblum. Well, I don't love Jeff Goldblum, but everybody else in the world loves Jeff Goldblum. [00:54:30] Speaker B: You don't love Jeff Goldblum for why? Is it because he always plays Jeff Goldblum? [00:54:35] Speaker A: Yeah, he kind of reminds me of John Stamos. I feel like they're in the same category for some reason. Like, they're always. They're always just playing themselves. [00:54:42] Speaker B: That's true. But the thing is, I feel like he does sell it, and I think that he would sell it in this character specifically. [00:54:49] Speaker A: Yes, I am gonna agree with that. This role, I think, is, like, this is a Jeff Goldblum role. And, like, if you give him more to work with, I think he's going like him. And then you have Michelle Yeoh as Madame Morrible. Like, the two of them. Oh, I'm already Getting chills. Because it's gonna be so incredibly. Like, you're gonna actually feel like these are the villains. Yeah, they are the villains. You're actually going to feel it. [00:55:11] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. I also just think that he can. I'm imagining the song wonderful with him, and I feel like he can sell the idea of sort of this. I don't know, that song kind of has this deceptively dorky energy about it where it's like, he's like, call me. It's like bouncy, and he's like, call me Wonderful. If you insist on everything like that. Right. Where it's like, you need somebody to be so charming until you think about everything that they're saying and you're like, why is this a happy, bouncy song? Why are you so thrilled about this? You are committing acts of, like, everything. This is against the Geneva Conventions. Get out of here. Essentially. But you need that charm and you need that guy to pull you into, like, the bouncy wonderfulness of it. He kind of reminds me of a Willy Wonka in a lot of ways, if Willy Wonka was worse. [00:56:11] Speaker A: And you think about it, he has to almost be charming because he comes from a different world, flies in here and convinces everybody he's this great wizard and takes over. [00:56:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And honestly, Jeff Goldblum tends to be put in these characters that are in a position of power, but in the most eccentric ways, he has made a good name for himself in the world of eccentricity. So I think that he. I think he can vibe here. I think that he will do good here. I am interested to see how he and Cynthia will play off of each other, too. And also, I like him opposite of Ms. Grande as well, because I feel like they could have. With her bounciness and his eccentricities, I think that we could build here. Okay, I'm. Why am I now a Deep. It's not out yet. But why am I a deep fan of the Wicked movies? [00:57:10] Speaker A: I think that the takeaway here is that just. We have convinced you that this could be either the worst movie ever or the best thing that ever happens to cinema. [00:57:20] Speaker B: Essentially. Basically, I'm gonna come out one or the other. Maybe I'll come out and I'll think it's just fine, but it's. I don't think so. Because if you have the artistic direction, if you're doing things on purpose and not just because a studio wants you to be, and if you have the star power, you can make a good Wicked. And it sounds like you have Convinced me that we make. Guys, are we making a good wicket? Possibly. [00:57:45] Speaker A: I want to ask you this. And obviously we're getting close on time, but, like, I think this is an important question. Do you think that part of the reason why it's going to be possibly so good is that it was in developmental hell so long because they were trying to do it so right? [00:58:00] Speaker B: Yes. Honestly? Yes. Because there are shows in different places where it's in developmental hell and it's because of a production thing, like. Oh, I reviewed a show a little bit ago called Uzumaki, and the first episode was great and the second episode sucked so bad. And it's because of the developmental hell that it was stuck in, where I think they decided to go with, like, a different studio and all sorts of stuff. But that was on the studio's choice if we're in developmental health because of the artistic choice. Because you want to do it right. I'm always down for that. People get mad at George R.R. martin for taking that long with that book. Take that long with that book. I want a good book. You know, I am a big believer in you need to give creatives the time and energy to develop something good and not just force them to do something on somebody else's timetable. As long as we're doing that in a conceivable way, it sounds like this was that. [00:58:57] Speaker A: Yeah, because I'm Looking here in 2009 interview, Gregory Maguire, the author, stated that he sold the rights to abc. Like, that was when it started. Like. And it has been like it was going to be a television show, and then it was going to be a miniseries, and then there was going to. [00:59:11] Speaker B: Be a television show. Makes a lot of sense, actually. [00:59:14] Speaker A: It does it? Absolutely. And they could do it. They could. They could do it. But by 2016, Universal was announced to be making a film. And it was gonna come out December 20, 2019. And then it slowly just kept getting pushed. And then, of course, the pandemic. Like, I feel like there's after. After almost like, what is that, 15 years. You could tell that, like, the people that were doing this wanted to make sure that it was exactly, yeah, perfect. [00:59:43] Speaker B: Especially if it was the same creative talent behind it this whole time. They didn't swap somebody out. You know, if it's. It's the same guy who's got this vision. I'm Brian. What have you done to me? I am now a fan of the Wiki. Sorry. But what if I watch. It's not good. What if Jonathan Bailey is not enough for Me. Who's to say Jonathan Bailey will never not be enough for me? [01:00:11] Speaker A: I was gonna say. What the. What the hell are you talking about? Jonathan Bailey. I know. He could be. He could be standing there for the whole film saying nothing, and that'd be like 10 out of 10, and don't do anything else. [01:00:24] Speaker B: And you know what? We're gonna go into the movie, and all that extra time is just gonna be that. That's it. [01:00:32] Speaker A: And just. Just again, looking this up. John chu was announced February 2, 2021. So he had been working on the film for apparently three years, basically. [01:00:41] Speaker B: Okay. Yeah. [01:00:43] Speaker A: So that feels like they were. [01:00:46] Speaker B: They've ruminated. [01:00:47] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:00:48] Speaker B: They've stuck with it. Okay. And especially if, again, the spillover into two is not just a cash grab. It was a genuine artistic decision. [01:00:58] Speaker A: Mm. [01:01:00] Speaker B: Oh, why am I hopeful? What have you done to me? The people of Twitter won't like this. [01:01:08] Speaker A: You're like, actually scrap the whole episode. It's an hour, and it's an hour and one minute right now. But we can't put any of this out because we are going to be ostracized. [01:01:16] Speaker B: I know the people of Twitter will hate me. I'll say I'm tentatively hopeful, and they'll say, there is no hope in this land. And. Oh, God. [01:01:25] Speaker A: Not in the land of Oz. Not under the wizard. [01:01:28] Speaker B: Not under that wizard. Jeff Goldblum may be charming, but it's not gonna work. Oh, my God. Okay, well, now I'm gonna have to skip out on a family event, and I'm gonna have to go to a theater. I'm gonna have to go G Wicked the day it comes out. Boo. [01:01:42] Speaker A: Or we'll get tickets for you early. We'll have to get you some press release. Press. [01:01:46] Speaker B: Oh, no. Oh, no. How terrible. How terrible and awful. If that were to happen and to. [01:01:54] Speaker A: End this cosmic curtain on a high note, comparable to any Elphaba hitting the Defying Gravity riff. We are running out of time, and we got to let the people wanting more and not ostracizing us because of. We might be on team. This is going to be great. [01:02:10] Speaker B: Oh, my God. [01:02:11] Speaker A: So thank you. [01:02:12] Speaker B: Now I am. Thank you. [01:02:16] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Cosmic Curtain, the official podcast of Cosmic Circus Broadway. Don't forget to, like, follow and subscribe to us at Boxy Babes. Well, my honoree, Boxy Babe for this episode, and it's been a pleasure. [01:02:30] Speaker B: It's been an honor. [01:02:32] Speaker A: We're in our heart. We're all babes. Or you can also find us at Mycosmic Circus. If you're interested in finding us outside of our box seats, please check us on our social medias. As you would probably know by this point, if you know Izzy, you can't find them anywhere. They're unfindable. [01:02:49] Speaker B: I'm. I'm under. I have several pseudonyms and it will never be traced back to me. Cheers. [01:02:55] Speaker A: They are like the wizard behind the mask. [01:02:58] Speaker B: I am. I've been the wizard this entire time. I'm so sorry to tell you this. I didn't mean to break it to you this way. I'm from Kansas. I'm not from Kansas. I am from Iowa, though. So basically the same thing. [01:03:09] Speaker A: You can find me on social media at Kitson301. Or again, you can find also find me at Boxy Babes. Thank you so much, Izzy, for being here and I would love to have you back on another podcast of the cosmic curtain. Until our next curtain call. See y'all later. [01:03:27] Speaker B: Bye.