Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome back to the Bright Lights of Broadway. This is the Cosmic Curtain, the official podcast of the Cosmic Circus Broadway. I'm Brian Kitson, head writer over at the Cosmic Circus and Cosmic Circus Broadway. And joining me as always, is my co host and fellow box seat babe, R.J. miller. Zelinko, how you doing today, sir?
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Trying to stay warm and not wet.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: We're getting snow tomorrow.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Honestly, comparatively to the like amount of rain and cold wind, I'd prefer snow.
[00:00:36] Speaker A: For those who don't know, we live in the mitten. And so it. The snow is coming. It's. It's officially here. We've made it to this season.
Yeah. And it's been a miserable rainy day outside.
But instead of focusing on that, we're going to do the only thing that Broadway kids will be talking about this week, and we are going to defy gravity like everybody else and talk about Wicked Part 1.
We got to see this earlier this week on Sunday. It was a packed theater full of tons of theater nerds. I think we can attest to that at least.
And so we're gonna be discussing the show and obviously, spoiler warning. If you don't want to know anything about the show, please get out. We are not going to release this until after the movie comes out officially tomorrow anyways.
But be warned, we're going to talk about things. We're going to discuss it all because there's so much to discuss. So if you need to leave, fly off on your broomstick. If you want to stay here and follow us down the Albic Road, we'd love to have you.
Did I throw enough references into Wicked there?
[00:01:42] Speaker B: I think you got it covered.
[00:01:44] Speaker A: Perfect. So I'm going to start asking you this question because I did ask Izzy last time and you weren't with us, unfortunately. What is your previous experience with Wicked? Because I know that you were kind of a wicked person. Like, that was your. That's your. That's your thing. That's like one of your shows.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: A wicked person. I am a wicked person. Oh, adverb.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: I didn't think of it that way. I'm sorry. You are a wicked theater person.
[00:02:17] Speaker B: I.
The first. I distinctly remember being exposed to this soundtrack to the show pretty soon after it launched.
I was a literal child and I had gotten back the day. For those of you who've never heard of a, I don't know, CD player before, that is what we had before streaming, before ipods.
I had a CD player and one of my birthday gift, Christmas gift, something. It was a Broadway CD with Like a mix of Broadway shows on it. But the last track on the CD was Defying Gravity, of course, so immediately became obsessed with that track and wanted to see the show so, so, so badly. Actually, I know exactly why I got the cd. I was in a musical. And for those of you who may not know, oftentimes theater folks in a show will buy each other gifts when the show closes and. Or the director will.
And that was how I got this cd. Anyway, I digress.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: It was important. That's important. We're setting the scene here.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: Yes, yes. So just imagine me at the grand old age of, I don't know, like.
[00:03:50] Speaker A: 10, 11, like, 21 years ago, so.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Becoming obsessed immediately with the show, going to YouTube, as any good theater nerd does, and trying to find a bootleg version of this musical.
And it wasn't even at home, because at that point, I did not have Internet at home. So I was at our public library trying to look up YouTube videos, which I'm not even sure was supposed to be doing that.
Definitely probably wasn't. But I did find, like, the tiniest. Like, someone must have recorded from the furthest row of the furthest balcony. And if you're around my age and you like Wicked, you probably know exactly the video that I'm talking about, because it was a whole show in one stint.
You couldn't really see anything except, like, you know, microscopic dots, but you could faintly see the dragon, and you could hear everything very well. And so I.
Anytime I went back to the library, I headed right over to the computer and I watched that YouTube video, and it was, you know, from then on, I did eventually, obviously, go see the show, but it was many, many years later. As we know, Broadway, even off Broadway touring tickets can be pricey, especially when a show is newer. And so I was well into my teen years, if not almost an adult by the time I saw the show.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: I can just picture baby RJ now. That was his bread and butter at the library for years. That's how you survived.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Yeah. And, I mean, I loved the library. I grew up in a small little town where, like, that's pretty much all there was to do. So, you know, we love books. Eventually, I did look into the book Wicked, and I did read that, but I had to go to the adult section because it was an adult book. And I remember being so scared because I. It was like going from, like, this cute little children's section, you know, and most libraries have, like, themed children's sections where it's all very cutesy and Homey. And then you just go into kind of like what a child would foresee as like, kind of a stale, just like massive bookshelves towering over you. Right.
I probably, like, did have to get up on one of those, like, step stool things just to, like, go get that book. But I did probably at a younger age than I should have.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Yeah. Because it is a very adult book. You know, I think that this is one of the things that I haven't read in a few years. But my sister who went with us to the show was talking. It was like, yeah, they really, they took the show and they made it a lot less adult. And I was like, probably for the best because it is, it's a very adult book. There's a lot of adult themes going through it.
I do have to know how soon was it after hearing Defying Gravity that you were trying to hit that high note?
I still can't hit it. I've tried my life, my whole life through.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: I mean, I'm sure as a kid I did like, I was singing along to everything as a child.
Was I doing it well?
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. But when I, at that point in my life, I also was not yet taking voice lessons.
Towards the beginning of my childhood, I was taking piano lessons, but not voice lessons, ironically. So.
But I think by probably the grand old age of 14, 15, that did become, of course, my audition song.
[00:07:55] Speaker A: And so, you know, and the rest is history.
There's something special about Wicked for the two of us as well, because it was actually the show that began our Broadway journey together when it toured in Detroit last, I want to say February, it might have been January somewhere around our birthdays. I remember because I bought you your birthday gift there, but it was the one that kind of was. This is like a full circle moment for us. This is. It began a year journey and it's continued on now to seeing the film on the movie. So it's kind of nostalgic for us.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Yeah, it's been.
That feels so long ago, but also we have done so much between then and now that it also feels not.
[00:08:44] Speaker A: So long ago and it's only picking up. So I hope that people are ready for that. We got some exciting shows coming for them.
So then let's turn towards the movie. So we did get to see this movie early.
It adapts the first act of the film.
Pretty one for one, I would say. I, I, you know, I think this is something that we kind of talked about as we were walking out.
What are your general thoughts of Act One, did we? I mean, it's pretty much. It's pretty much act one here.
[00:09:16] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. There's not a lot of give or take on what is being covered, which I think is appropriate.
It would have felt very bizarre if you had decided to break off the movies in a different spot comparatively to.
[00:09:35] Speaker A: The show for sure.
I know that at one time this film has been in development for decades. Pretty much not long after the show was on Broadway, they were talking about a movie movie. But for the longest time this was going to be one film. And after, you know, when they announced that they were kind of splitting, I was like, how do you split this story? Like, how do you do it? Like, honestly, we know how it splits, but like when you have a 15 minute mission, how do you do that when you have a whole year in between? And again, when I saw it, I was like, it makes sense. This is exactly where you have to split it. You know, you start with no One mourns the Wicked and you end with Defying Gravity. How else were you supposed to like close out that first chapter of Elphaba's story?
[00:10:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And in very movie esque fashion, you have some type of cliffhanger. Right. Even though most of us know where this is going, for those folks who don't, it is a good spot. It is a good jumping off spot because it does leave you wondering, it does leave you wanting more and just it gives you enough to ponder in this space that we now have regarding Waiting for Part two.
[00:10:59] Speaker A: So with this film though, so the show is. And I'm going to give the exact time probably closer to you, because you are the usher. You've ushered this probably thousands of times. Not literally, but the first act's roughly like an hour and 30 hour and 40ish minutes, correct?
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:11:16] Speaker A: So this is an almost three hour film. We're sitting at two hours and 40 minutes. Granted, we have credits, so let's take out 10, 15 minutes. You're still looking at two and a half hours of a film, which isn't necessarily bad for a film. I feel like that's pretty. That's on the longer side of average now.
But where did they, where do you feel like they really put this time at? Because we didn't have extra songs, you know, we had a few extra stories.
But where did this hour come from, in your opinion?
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Well, the timing of everything that is being delivered is just way slower than you would see on a stage on Broadway.
For those again who have seen the show, some of the Broadway's version What makes it so spectacular is the moments where pieces are constantly moving, people are coming on and off in transition, and it's moving along very, very quickly. But if you were to take that away from the Broadway show, I think you could easily be adding a substantial amount of time on top of just the general delivery of the lines, the tempos at which the songs are being taken.
So many of the songs are broken up in different segments and leaving room for, you know, whether it's an ad lib moment, whether it's a cinematography type moment where we're just. There's. We're not completely moving away from the song, but, oh, maybe they had like four or five measures of kind of interlude that we wouldn't have gotten in the production.
[00:13:15] Speaker A: I think one of the really. I think one of the moments I noticed it the most in, and I feel like you even mentioned this too as we were walking out, but was in Dancing Through Life where it's actually the part where Elphaba shows up at the, at the club and like that scene moved a lot slower, but it didn't move slower and like it was dragging, but it moved slower and is like, it like almost ripped your heart out a little bit more because you're watching this girl kind of like break in like slow motion.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Well, and you have way, way, way more context for these, for those types of scenes than we do in the play, in the musical. So the stage version, like, they don't travel anywhere, they're not doing anything aside from where they're currently standing. Whereas with the movie, you have this entire transition occurring to a whole separate location. You're bringing everyone with you separately. And that takes time.
And rather than the scene happening behind dialogue, which is much of what that scene is, you're literally going from, you know, you're going from shiz, you're going to the ballroom, you're going back to shiz, you're going back to the dressing room. Like, there's so much more back and forth.
And that song is long to begin with. It's one of the longer songs, but I can imagine that it's probably three to four times longer in the movie.
[00:14:52] Speaker A: I know for a fact that the track listing is at 9, almost 10 minutes long. It's like a long song for the film.
And I kept thinking in my head, like, what are you, what are you adding? And my guess is when that, when the soundtrack comes out, it's going to be a lot of the instrumental. Like, because the song still carries, like you're still carrying through the scene where, you know, Alphabet comes to the club, she starts dancing by herself. Like, you still have that music. When Glinda is just like, no, of course she cares. Like, you have all these. All these moments that are still carrying through that do add to that song. And I think that is really impressive that they were able to give us some more of those moments. And we do get a lot more character moments, I think, of this film than we do in the musical. Because, again, the musical has to move. You have to get to point A to point B.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: Well. And of course, we get the blessing and the curse of up close facial expressions. Right. And in a musical we would never do that because 4, 5 can't see your face. They can only see the gestures that you're making.
So we're getting these super elongated emotive, just pockets of time that we don't get any of in the stage version.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely. And they do use a little more that cutaway. You know, even during Defying Gravity, they cut away a lot to Glinda to see her facial reactions to what was going on. And I think that added again, another layer because, like, when you're seeing a stage show, you're kind of taking it all in, but, like, you're not taking, like in those pieces, you know, unless you're sitting in row one, you're not getting the facial expressions. You're just kind of getting the exaggerated movements. And this film didn't have a lot of exaggerated movements. You know, I think that, like, I was waiting for, like, I was thinking, like, oh, Glinda's gonna, like, freak out here. And like, it was more muted and toned, but you didn't have to because you saw how she was reacting with her face and less with her body. And so that does lead to, like, a more personal story, perhaps.
[00:16:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. I mean, of course, the blessing of cinema, we get more of things that we didn't even know we were missing in the first place.
And that is, if I can compare to any other movie musical, which is, I think, what many people were considering when they are going to see this.
It's just different.
I'm not a big fan of some of the previous movie musicals that have come out, but this one just does a masterful job at not trying to be anything outside of exactly what it is. It's saying we are a movie. Here are all of the things you would typically see in a film, but also remaining extremely true to the writing of the show, which we just don't get very often.
[00:17:57] Speaker A: You were Actually worried about this musical before, even with the trailer, you were hesitant. You were like, I don't know what it's going to be like going into the show.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: Well, so many things can go wrong. The most recent ones that I've seen, of course, the most recent ones that have been pushed out, we had Mean Girls, what last year or two years ago?
A while ago we had Les Mis.
That is, neither of those did particularly well, at least in my.
I have my very strong opinions about both of those. But even in general, I don't think they were received super well. And so when you carry that into this 20 years in the making, basically since the inception of this show, people have wanted a movie.
It's a lot of pressure. I would not have wanted to be on the production team for the show. But also how incredible to now be on the production team and say, look at this thing that we made and that people can appreciate.
[00:19:10] Speaker A: First off, I have to go back and as you know, my feelings about Lady Mids, the film and I am very excited to see it live because I hear that it's a different experience. But you're just like, I don't think it was received well. Didn't Anne Hathaway win an Academy Award for that film? I'm almost positive.
[00:19:27] Speaker B: Maybe. I honestly, I'm not an award show kind of guy, but I mean, Anne Hathaway is Anne Hathaway. It was less about the performances and more about the way in which it was filmed. I think if you were to talk to most folks that the one thing that they will be reminded of from that film is that everyone's. That everyone had a camera this close to their face. All of them.
[00:19:58] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:19:59] Speaker B: And that was the whole film. It wasn't the whole film to be clear. But that is the thing that people took from it because it was so substantial.
So there were definitely great performances in it. We love Anne Hathaway. We love actually quite a few of the folks in that movie. But unfortunately when things. When there's one thing that just is really glaring, that is the thing that gets taken away from it.
[00:20:30] Speaker A: You know, you mentioned about the up close facial shots and it just occurred to me that they have been showing a lot of behind the scenes shoots, specifically of filming defying gravity. And in those shoots there are a lot of up close shots that don't make it into the film. And I wonder if they took that into account of just being like these shots don't like you. You get a better sense of her power of flying and stuff. Like that when you're not just staring at her face.
[00:20:56] Speaker B: Yeah. I will say this is one of the things that I was. When I went in and I was like, please, please don't just be a bunch of close ups.
And I thought it was balanced very, very well. We. There were some close up moments, but it was in those very intense, almost silent pauses in time where there was no dialogue, there was no music. It was just.
You're supposed to be reading into whatever the character is doing and their facial expressions. Whereas some like show, like Les Mis, they would be belting a song and you just see the back of their throat, you know, like that.
[00:21:42] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: That is the angle that's occurring. Whereas here, much more full scene cinematography happening. Much more like, I'd say well rounded, it was appropriate. What was? When there was a close up, we knew why it was happening.
[00:22:05] Speaker A: Speaking of the cinematography and you know, we are going to get into our two main gals and stuff in a moment. But speaking of the cinematography, this was, you know, I was worried. I know a lot of people were worried about like in the trailer of being like, there's not a great color and there's not. They were worried about some of that. But honestly I felt that this was actually pretty beautiful. And I like some of the choices they made. And the one thing that stuck out to me is in the beginning of the film and. And towards the end of the film you open with silence. Like, you open with the silence, you open with the screen and then you just hear that like that fuzzy speaker that reminds you of like the 1930s wizard of Oz of just being like echoing some of the lines that we see in the musical that we. That you could still put in there and you could have had it as dialogue, but it made it such. More like it set the tone very quickly of just being like, oh, like body chills, like. And I thought that was so cool because it reminded me kind of of like World War II, like watching a World War II film almost that like, you know, that period piece.
And I think that gave it a really cool effect to start off and to kind of end that the movie with that. With that effect.
[00:23:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
Without spoiling too much. Even though obviously we're saying all the things but.
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Right.
[00:23:23] Speaker B: Just. Yeah. The truancy of the tone being set that way.
And also, I mean this entire musical is just foreshadow, foreshadow, foreshadow. And so it was very cool for them to foreshadow kind of in a different way.
That opening scene, that opening Credits, if we can even call it that, because it was very long, like, between the scene and then the title actually occurring.
And I know we talked a little bit about even the font of the title and the choices that they made with that just once again tied in so well to the show.
And I think its truth regarding everything else that it's. That it's twisted into it really speaks.
[00:24:30] Speaker A: To the legacy that this entire land of Oz has and how it's had on cinema and people for almost 100 years.
It's beautiful.
Also added to the extra hour is we do get a bit of an expansion on the animals, which I think is very. Was very important, because I think that is, especially during today's age and time in society and stuff like that, this idea of oppression and getting to explore that a little bit more, I think it hit a little bit harder, and I think that I appreciated it a little bit more. Getting to see more of the animals, especially, like, you get to see them, like, in her childhood, which was a very distinct time period compared to what's happening now in the land of Oz. And those who have seen the musical know animals are losing their voices and they're being silenced by some force. And we won't get into that necessarily, in case you haven't seen it, and if, again, you're still here, so thanks for listening. But they played that up a little bit, and I do think that that added another aspect to the story that I think the movie did actually need compared to the stage show.
[00:25:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the stage version, we get basically one to two animal interactions with both Dr. Dilliman and history, mostly in Act 2.
And so it was interesting. And also just like one of those moments when that scene or even some of the opening scenes with the other animals occurred. And I was like, well, of course.
Of course they're speaking animals, like, just because we get so used to seeing, of course, actors playing animals. Right. So I did chuckle at myself because I was like, he's a goat. He is a goat. That is right.
But I think that was the only scene, one of the only scenes that truly, I would say, pulled the furthest away from the stage version, just because the formatting of the scene kind of. It's like we left and came back and then kind of arrived at where we wanted to be. But, yeah, I think it added at that piece, like you were saying, that we don't get.
And it does. I think it makes you feel a little bit more for them as well, because we're hearing.
We're Hearing fright, we're hearing depression. We're hearing a lot of themes that probably many of us can relate to. And so, comparatively, to just like, one single song, it was kind of cool.
[00:27:21] Speaker A: Absolutely. It gives Elphaba a little more.
I'm gonna say justification. I can't think of a better word. But, like, you understand why she feels so passionate about those. About the animals and about what's happening and nobody else is kind of listening to her. And she's kind of looking around like, what's going on? But there is this deeper meaning to. She has a lot more connections, not just with Dr. Dillerman, but with other animals throughout her life who have been there in ways that she's needed them because she didn't have parents to take care of her the way that they should have.
So, switching to our two witches, where do you want to start? Do you want to start with Elphaba? Do you want to start with Glinda? Dealer's choice here, my friend.
[00:28:01] Speaker B: I don't even know.
[00:28:03] Speaker A: Fine. Then we're going to start with our favorite, our girl, Cynthia Irvo as Alfie.
I never doubted her for a moment.
I do not know if I can ever see Wicked on Broadway again because I think she's always going. I think I'm always going to be comparing everybody to her now, which sounds crazy because I've seen. I've seen Wicked so many times. I've seen so many different actresses take up the mantle Elphaba, and they're all so unique. In the moment she, like, opened her mouth in the scene at Shizu, I was like, oh, no, this is. I'm done for. Like, this is 100% my Elphaba. But what are your thoughts on her?
[00:28:48] Speaker B: I mean, I'm right. I'm right there, too.
I have seen this stage version probably close to 30 times.
And everyone is spectacular in their own way. Like, if you have reached this role, it just. It's a powerhouse character. It's a powerhouse vocal, you know what you're doing. But it just the. The effortless way in which she encapsulates the character, which I think is substantially different than any performance I've seen. Because of her experiences as a human through life up until now, I think she's probably.
Obviously, I can't speak for her. I don't know her life. But from. From the few interviews that I have kind of listened to and read, it does make total sense that she can relate to this character on such a high, high level. And that just brings a different caliber of performance. And authenticity when she's singing about some of these things, where. When some of these acting moments occur and they just feel real, because they are. And she. And she knows we're not. We're not just looking at Elphaba. We're looking a little bit. There's a transparency that's happening there.
[00:30:27] Speaker A: Yeah. From the interviews for both of these actresses, you really got the sense that they were. That they understood the legacy and the power, and they also understood these characters very well, and they are very emotionally attached to them.
It's almost hard to see now on the other side of it, where does Cynthia begin and where did Elphaba end? Where was that line? Because there is so much blending between the two and that made for such a. Such a more raw, natural performance.
And again, it could be because they spent more time with these characters. I mean, think about it. They were cast back in 2021, and then they filmed two movies back to back. And like, by the end of that, you're.
Who are you? You know, who are you in that person and who are you in that character?
There wasn't a scene that I don't think that she did not almost steal that she was in.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: I mean, it. Yeah, it was just there. There weren't. I feel like some performances that I've seen, you know, part of the characterization that occurs is that she's kind of overly loud to compensate for.
Like, that is the way in which they approach the insecurities that she has. Right. It's like being the loudest in the room and saying, oh, like, I know you're looking at me.
You know, no, I didn't eat grass. No, I eat all the things. Right. Whereas this felt a little bit different. Like, she didn't need to.
There was a calm that I feel like I have not seen in other portrayals of Elpha. She didn't need to shout. She didn't need to get aggressive. She just kind of blatantly stated the lines in the delivery and it made it feel different, but also just once again, more real. Like, chances are you're not just going to walk up to a group of strangers and yell at them for looking at you. You're just going to say, like, hey, like, yeah, you're looking at me. What's your. What's your problem? And that is how it felt. Or at least to me, that's how it felt. It was delivered.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: I had the distinct thought about halfway through the film. I said, it's like the anti Dumbledore. Like, everybody makes fun of that. Scene in the fourth film where he comes down screaming. And in the books, he's very calm.
And compared to the stage production, she is very calm and very. Like, when she's talking to them at. At the beginning of shiz, and she's kind of like, no, I did not eat grass, and yes, I was born this way and stuff like that. She's almost doing it with, like, a little hint of, like. There's almost like a laugh to her voice. Like, she almost thinks it's, like. It's amusing that people are like that dumb kind of thing. Like, I don't know how else to describe it, but there's just like, this moment, like, you're almost. You almost have, like that. That, like, little laugh at the back of your throat as you're doing it.
And what I love, too, is that when you finally see her in Defying Gravity, which is, you know, by the time you get to her battle cry, you are almost like, she is scary by that point because she had been so calm throughout the entire film about everything. Even, you know, like, she figures out that the wizard is, you know, the bad guy. And, you know, she just turns around and she just, like, almost, like, walks back to the book. Like, there's almost this, like, you know, somebody who. You just always look at them, you're like, oh, there's always. When there's ever there's a storm, you just remain so calm and so still. Like, you. Like, you. You're kind of like that. Like, you just. You don't let a lot of things bother you, but when something bothers you, you know that, like, it's big and so Elphaba, this version of Elphaba was very much like that. I think that it suited her better. I think that it made the character a lot more.
It almost humanized her a little bit more. Like you almost felt for her a little bit more.
And again, I go back to that scene during Dances Through Life where in the stage show when Glinda starts dancing, she's very angrily. Like, she kind of like, gestures to her, like, okay, it's your turn. Like, just continue doing it. What are you waiting for? And in this moment, it was just like a calmness. And then when she starts to cry, you see the pain. You don't see just the anger. And I feel like that is where I loved this one so much. I think that there was a better balance of her emotions.
So she's not just always flying off the handle. So when she finally flies off the handle and Defying Gravity, you know it means something more. I don't know if any of that makes sense.
[00:35:01] Speaker B: I mean, we're all just. We're all just speaking into the void, right? But it doesn't make sense to me.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think there's. Yeah, there's just a different level of.
Of course, once again, you're on a Broadway stage. You have to communicate the emotions to thousands of people. And maybe the only way to do that is these grand gestures, is these aggressive. A more aggressive tone is just being louder because if you go quieter, you might lose half the audience. And that is, once again, the blessing of cinema is we can go the other way and approach it differently and maybe more authentically and see that it has the same result.
And I think, yeah. Dancing through life. A great.
Probably one of my favorite moments of this film would be that scene because it is just so true. And once again, I think there are probably half the audience members in these theaters, you know, as. As the show, as this movie opens, I think are going to know exactly what that moment feels like and are going to relate to it very, very strongly, which is just speaks power.
That is the power of this show too, though, right? Like, the main theme of it being friendship and a different level of love that we don't see conveyed in theater, but also, especially in movies, usually it's just romance. So, yeah, it's a. It's a level up.
[00:36:48] Speaker A: In fact, in this film and in this show in general, romance kind of does. It's there, but it takes that backseat because it's really truly the love between two friends and like their story specifically, it's Elphaba's story, but she's. Her story is nothing without Glinda and the journey they take together. And so I do think that that is beautiful because you're right, we don't get a lot of that. You know, you get. I think that's what makes Frozen so attractive to people too, is like it's a story of two sisters and not necessarily falling in love. Yes, there's romance, but it's. It's. Again, it's that back seat. There's a different kind of love and explores that. And, you know, that's something that.
[00:37:25] Speaker B: I.
[00:37:26] Speaker A: Think a lot of people are tending to explore a little bit more. I know that we've had conversations about, like, different forms of loving somebody and friendships and what is important and what are relationships. And so to see that kind of played out on the screen does make for more beautiful moments.
Speaking of, though, that friendship, we do have to switch to Glinda.
Before I give my thoughts, I want to know, what did you think of Ariana Grande's performance as Glinda? Because you. This was the one that you were more worried about. Because I think as we were leaving, if I remember correctly, you said. I had no. I had no doubts about Cynthia, but Ari was the one I was worried about before we went in. Yes, you said that so quietly. You were like, I don't know what to.
[00:38:07] Speaker B: Well, because now we're on the other side, right. And to be fair, I do not. I am not a big Ariana Grande fan. Not that it's not that I dislike her. I just really, truly don't know much of her, aside from, you know, her few hit wonders that have hit the radio the last however many years. And so that is all I really know of her. I don't know a ton about her history. I know she was a musical theater nerd, and I knew her history in that regard and her love for this show explicitly and this role.
But it is a very.
From a character standpoint, it almost might be more difficult than Elphaba, because I think the. The. The voice is very distinct and the way in which you can go to either extreme with this role and it can be too much or too little. So that is the danger, I think, with this role. And that's what I was worried about is that it was almost going to be so extreme that it got lost. Luckily, that's not what happened.
But I was. I was very impressed.
And gosh, I should have known because she basically had the blessing from the og, which herself and we all trusted Kristin Chen with. So I thought it was. Yeah, it was.
I was immediately impressed and just. I forgot all of my worries after scene one. I was like, they are no longer in my head.
[00:40:01] Speaker A: I think that when we. We talked about this when we saw Wicked here in Detroit, where Elphaba is very easy in that you can be. Anybody can be Elphaba in the fact that, like, it's their own Elphaba. But there's always that comparison of, like, people are trying really hard to be Kristin Chenoweth because it's such a distinct voice and it's distinct mannerism. Like, Kristin Chenoweth was 100% Glinda and her energy was exactly like it. There was hard to separate the two of them. And so, you know, I think that one of the worries was always like, was Ariana Grande just going to be an impressionist of Christian Chenoweth? Because Ariana is very Good at doing impressions like that is one of the things that she's very like. She's showcased that talent multiple times before across many different medias.
I had no doubt in her singing. I had seen her. I've been to her concert, believe it or not. I know it's shocking.
I've been to her concert before. I went to her tour.
I had no doubt in that. But I was worried. I was like, how are you going to do this? Like, what is. Like, where's your voice going to be? And what I love is that it's not exactly a Kristen channel with voice. It's not exactly a Kristen channel with performances. But there are those hints of, like, you could see it in some of the ways that she would have different inflections or if she would hurt us, hit a certain note some way. But she also made it her own multiple times throughout the show.
Like the run in the popular where she goes up for who you are instead of, like, kind of remain the same, which I'm going to be putting that on my tombstone one day.
There is those moments where she really did take that character, and she knew who that character was, and she loved that character so much that there was no denying by the time we got done with it that part two is just going to be just as phenomenal because she is Glinda.
[00:41:49] Speaker B: Yeah. I think she's lived with this role for. I mean, what. We are exactly the same age. And so, you know, I often read or hear the story about her going to Kristen's dressing room, you know, meeting her, talking with her and saying, you know, one day I'm gonna play Glinda.
And of course, you know, manifestation. And she never stopped.
Yeah. And the most recent thing, I think, was Kristen saying they were watching the film last week and that Ari turned to Kristen and said, you know, did I make you proud? And so I think there's just a different level of. Of course, she had this massive support system around her, but she. She knew what her North Star was. She knew how she wanted it to be. She's probably known her entire last 20 years. She's probably been practicing it. And so it makes complete sense to me that she absolutely nails it and makes it herself, but also true to the character and just that truly, they're both just being so authentic, and I think they can probably both relate to the characters so seamlessly that that's what, you know, makes the magic happen on the screen.
[00:43:24] Speaker A: I think she was on Jimmy Fallon. I think, granted, this was a TikTok, but it was her talking to one of the hosts, and she was talking about when the script came across her desk, quote, unquote desk. She was on tour, and she had told her managers. She goes, I'm so sorry, but if I. If. If I think what's about to happen because this came on my desk, I'm canceling my entire tour, and we will pick it back up, and I will apologize to everybody, but there's no missing this role for me. And she actually auditioned for both roles because they wanted her to, but she came in wearing all pink, and she was just like, they knew who I wanted, and I told them, I'll sing both parts. I'll take whatever part you give me, but I really want Glinda.
This was like, 100%. Like, she knew. She knew exactly who this character was. She knew where she wanted to go with it, and she was willing to put her entire career on the line, which is kind of impressive. Like, that's a. That's a huge gamble, because what if this didn't turn out well and we still know how it's going to turn out at this point? We loved it. It could become. It could be bomb at the box office. You know, she put it on the line to play this role because she believed in it that much. And that does speak volumes, I think, to her performance in this film when.
[00:44:29] Speaker B: It tells you where her heart is. Right? I mean, and those of us who are theater nerds know what that means, because rightfully so, I'd probably do the same thing. If you're someone who really appreciates, you know, theater and live performance in that way, and you're touring as a pop star and your dream role becomes available to you, there is. I don't think there's one theater nerd in the world that wouldn't say the exact same thing and be like, I'm so sorry. I'll apologize ten times over. But also, my fans will get it, because they will, right? Like, if they're following you, if they are, in essence, a true fan, they're going to support you in what you do and what you enjoy the most. Because whatever you enjoy the most is going to be the thing that you absolutely are the best at, 100% focusing.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: On the rest of the story, because there is so much here. Are there any narratives or characters that you feel didn't really hit well, or maybe you didn't quite understand the choices that they made, or do you feel like it? Overall, it all went pretty well.
[00:45:48] Speaker B: Oh.
[00:45:51] Speaker A: I can start this one. If you Want. I will say that there is a character that is her friend who is very stereotypical gay, which they kind of made that into a bigger part.
That there were sometimes that. Again, love this film. 10 out of 10, no notes. Except that there were some lines I was like, okay, that was very. Like, you're going for that gay. Like, you're going for that gay note. You're like. And so there was sometimes that felt a little like. Like character. Character wise. Try saying that 10 times fast.
That was just like, okay. And I do think that again, which is. This is a common complaint, I feel like, for a lot of the show is that you almost don't even need Fiero in Act 1. Like, who is he? This, like, he's the love interest, but he's just kind of there.
And so those are my kind of thoughts. My only thoughts about something that maybe didn't. I love it because I love the show, but I feel like some people are going to look at that and be like, why'd you make that? Why did you? Why. Why do we. Who is this person? Why are they there? What are they doing?
[00:46:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, when it comes to the storyline and the plot, truly. And I hate to say that, because we love some of the pieces that come in Act 2 with Pierrot, but Act 1, truly, you could probably take him out and you wouldn't be missing much, literally, that the whole show could still continue on.
So I get that piece for the story specific to the movie. There was a point in the opening scene that I am sure will come full circle as we move forward to the end.
As many of you know, the opening scene is kind of setting up for this story of flashback that basically the whole show is. And then we jump back into real time at the end. And so I'm waiting for that jump back in kind of in regards to Glinda's characterization at the end of it all.
So curious as to how that is going to be presented. Just because it felt a bit more aggressive than I've seen before, seen that portrayed before.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: And it's weird that they did it, given that there's a year break, too, because I feel like a lot of theater people, they're all going to know the scene as soon as they watch it and they see it. Like, that's a. That's a year of almost festering or thinking about it.
[00:48:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And. And we know what's coming. And, you know. Well, for those of us who know what's coming, we know what's coming. But, yeah, it's a. It's a little bit. I could just totally be reading way, way, way into it. But once again, based on the conversations that I've. And interviews that I've listened to and heard, like, there are. There's so many Easter eggs. There's just so much, which there already is in the show to begin with. So for them to add more.
Yeah, it's like, all right, now we.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: Get to wait one year. One year. So we already switched to the music and the dancing. So there are. All the songs are present from act one. They didn't really change a lot, but there are some changes. And the one, you know, I'm gonna ask you what changes stuck out to you, but I'm gonna start this one by saying that the split in Defying Gravity, at first, I wasn't expecting it. I think it put me off. You know, there's this scene which, again, we're not gonna spoil too much, but as she's flying before she gets to the. The big moment that you're kind of just like seeing this, like, where everybody's at, which I can know is very important to the narrative because you need to set up, like, what's going on before we start Act 2, Part 2.
But I'm so used to Defying Gravity just continuing on that. That pause, which is like a minute, minute and a half, maybe almost two minute pause, felt almost so off putting. And again, that could be what they were aiming for, but that's the one that stuck out the most to me was that moment of just like you're stopping before she comes and gives her warning and her battle cry.
Did that strike you as an interesting choice?
[00:50:29] Speaker B: Sort of. But from. From a movie standpoint, not too much. Because if they had kept it at the rhythm in which that song goes, I feel like people who are not familiar with the show would be kind of lost or just kind of be like, oh, and that is the end of the movie. Sure.
Like, there was a. There was a little bit more setup and just general. Once again, the slowdown of here's two things that happen, pause. Here's another two things that are happening, pause.
Here's a dramatic moment, pause. And so. And once again, when we talk about an hour being added to the show like that, I think again, this song alone probably added 10, 15 minutes by the time they truly.
From the time the song began, and I'm just running the scene back through my head, I remember sitting there thinking, are they gonna do the full song? Are we skipping this? Are we skipping to the end?
Because they added so much instrumental in between and so much, you know, staging.
[00:51:54] Speaker A: That there's so much action. There's so much action.
[00:51:57] Speaker B: I. I did not know where it was going. It. It felt.
It felt like a twister, which is ironic.
So get out.
You know, it's.
But that whole. Yeah, that whole thing. I was like, I still enjoyed that last, you know, whatever. The last stint of it, but for a second, I was a little bit like, and we're up and we're down and we're sideways and where is this train going?
[00:52:36] Speaker A: 100%. Were there any other changes in any of the music that you. That you. That caught your attention, you liked, you didn't like? I know, again, dancing Through Life. They really extended that one. I know we've talked about that.
Popular also had a pause, too, where it stopped and there was actually, like, a scene in a dialogue, which, again, understanding that didn't. That one didn't catch me off guard as much. But there were a lot of those moments where they stopped and they let the scene continue and then they came back to it, which I, again, is. It's a very cinematic choice.
[00:53:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and they.
They add a song here or there. Won't say much about it.
Necessary. But also, once again, like, technically, probably not necessary.
Y'all will understand once you see it what I mean. But for now, I'll just say we appreciate it. The musical theater nerds of the world absolutely demanded. And so they delivered.
And it's, you know, it doesn't do anything for the movie itself, I don't think. It doesn't do anything for the plot.
It gives us more about Oz, it gives us more about the wizard that we don't get out of the musical, which was interesting.
Do we care?
Not so much. At least for me, it doesn't. Because once, once again, the show is about the two witches. It's. It's really not focused much around Oz, who is technically a villain in this.
[00:54:23] Speaker A: So what I think is interesting is I wasn't going to mention this, but we kind of brought it up. And again, I'm going to play very coy with this. I thought that part was necessary because I liked what they set up. I'm just gonna say the word prophecy because that I walked away and I was like, that was probably the most interesting ad that they had to the thing, because it sets up Act 2.
[00:54:40] Speaker B: A lot better and true. And I think maybe that this is where it's.
It's closer to the book than it is to the Musical, Yes. I think this is a piece of the book that they brought in and toy with that. The musical does not super touch on because, you know, it's already three hours long and you can't really.
But yeah, in that sense, because our time in the Emerald City is very limited. It was kind of nice to play.
[00:55:13] Speaker A: A little bit with that 100.
Speaking of the Emerald City, I want to talk about stuns, FX and kind of the settings. I was shocked that. Shocked in the fact of, like, this was a movie with a very big budget and it did not have a lot of special effects. A lot of this was.
There were scenes where there were special effects. Defying Gravity 100. All those flips, all those turns, her flying. Yes. A lot of her magic. But again, there's not a lot of magic in this film. And what I loved is that not being super FX heavy, they built these sets that were just impressive. Like, Shiz University felt like a castle.
I thought that was really beautiful. What did you think of the sets? What did you think of the effects of this film, especially as it translates from stage to screen?
[00:55:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it.
It gave a good blend for me of actually the wizard of Oz. Like, it gave me more wizard of Oz that I don't get with the musical, and I kind of appreciated that.
But, I mean, yeah, the gorgeous, gorgeous scene, gorgeous scenery.
I appreciate not a lot of effects, special effects, just because, once again, I think that brings it a little bit closer to us. Like, even though we know this is not real. Right. But it just brings a level of humanity into it that makes it feel like we can relate to it just a tad more.
And that experience that they're portraying. Right, that the college experience and then all of the background and what's to come, it feels like a place you want to go visit, but it also feels like a place that you could literally go visit, which I think if you added too many effects in there, you'd be like, oh, no. It's literally basically a cartoon. There's no. That's not happening.
[00:57:25] Speaker A: And even the effects that we have, because there wasn't so many, you could tell that they had more time to sit there and render them. So, like, when she's flying, it looks a little more real than some of the. Oh, this is going to be blasphemous for me to say, but some of the more recent Marvel films, you kind of feel like, okay, we're dancing on that line where, like, you didn't quite clean it up as well as you should have.
And this all Looked very crisp for everything that they did have to use it for. Like Dr. Dillman. I literally was like, that's a goat. Like, like, obviously you can tell it's a CGI goat, but you're like, it's closer to the reality of what a goat looks like. So when it's talking, you're not, like, so thrown off. Like, it's still like, yeah, that's a talking goat. And so I appreciated that. What we did get was beautiful in that world, and it made sense. And it did feel like it would. Like, you could go and visit that and you would actually see that talking goat there. And that's okay. Or usually we talk about rewatchability. So I'm going to ask you this.
Is this a rewatchable film? Because I know you're not always. You're not always a person that goes back to the movie theater multiple times. Unless I drag you there.
[00:58:26] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, hard. Yes, on this. I will for sure at least be seeing it probably two to three more times myself for the exact purpose of honestly, why I went back and saw the stage version 3, 4, 5, 10, 20 times.
There's so much happening. There's so much detail. Like you just mentioned, these very, very intricate things are occurring that we're not even catching.
And they're just. It's worth, of course, just experiencing, I think, especially in a movie theater. Right. I mean, don't get me wrong, I can't wait until it's out. And I can watch this at home a thousand times, but the degree. Once again, the cinematography is so incredibly well done.
If you're on the fence about going to see it or just waiting for it to come out, which I'm sure it's going to be a long time before it comes out, but, gosh, go see it, because it's worth seeing on a big screen.
[00:59:31] Speaker A: I can picture it now. This is going to be the movie that you're constantly texting me, being like, I went to go fall asleep and I ended up watching Wicked. And it's been three hours later and.
[00:59:41] Speaker B: It'Ll just become traditional 100% once a week.
[00:59:46] Speaker A: You're just like, guess what? I'm watching.
I 100% agree that this is a film I would go see multiple times. In fact, I'm going to see it twice more this week with different people. But I think that this is one.
If you're. If for anybody who's going into this thinking, like, this is a musical, I don't want to see it. This is not your typical musical. This is more of an epic film. I'm thinking more along the lines of, like, do you remember, like, being a kid and being like, oh, you get to go see the one Christmas movie, and it was like a Disney movie. It was like a. It was like a Harry Potter. It was Lord of the Rings. It was one of those things you're just like. It was the epic story of the year. And this is that film. This is the film that I'll be surprised if it doesn't get nominated, if not take most of the awards for the Academy Awards. These Oscars are going home with these people. They are.
This is. This is the film of the year. And that's. That feels really crazy to say for somebody who reviews a lot of fucking films, but this is the film that, like, you don't feel like it's three hours. You don't feel like you're wasting your time. You feel nothing but hope. And even it sounds weird at the end of it, it's. It's. It's kind of miserable for Alphabet, but you still feel hope because she still has hope that she can change the world. And I think that, like, that's what people need right now. So this is the film again, we do not need to sleep on. This is Go support these incredible women, but also Universal. Don't think that just because this film makes lots of money that you need to make 20,000 sequels after this. We don't need them. Let's let these two films rest the way that they are.
I think that's the best way to put it.
[01:01:22] Speaker B: Great.
[01:01:24] Speaker A: So thank you for listening to another episode of the Cosmic Curtain, the official podcast of Cosmic Circus Broadway. Don't forget to, like, follow and subscribe to us at Boxy Babes or Cosmic Circus. If you're interested in finding us outside of our box seats, please check us on our socials. You can find me at Kitson301 or Kitson301, depending on which social media app you're looking at. How about you, rj?
[01:01:48] Speaker B: You can check me out on the gram Journey through the past underscore after every word.
[01:01:58] Speaker A: Thank you so much. Until our next curtain call.
